On Mon, 23 Sep 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 09/23/2013 06:10 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
When I read the book for the first time, I was surprised. Both at the
fink's lack of talent in how to talk to a PDP-10's OS (any) and then
his talents for doing things that most of us would want to do one way
or the other. And naturally not do because its really not legal.......
Dave is that system running? Or is it shutdown and waiting?
Shutdown and waiting. It needs a MASSBUS drive to boot from. I'm
pursuing some possibilities on that front, but very slowly.
You really need to get one so I can run TOPS-10 on it. ;)
You then see a crowd of yetis and a bigger crowd of snow leopards at
work, at a machine. You see your available bandwidth shrink and then
realize that's what they are using.
Damn yetis are surfing porn again!
In emacs!!
Hey, it's a great OS for that. ;)
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
It's very likely that that very computer is here. Two of the three
PDP-10s from the MIT AI Lab are here.
Possible. Planning on running ITS on one? ;)
You should let me install TOPS-10 on one of them.
http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECsystem-2020s.jpg
The (original from MIT) handwritten label on the front of the
rightmost one says "This is ML.AI, an ITS".
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 09/23/2013 06:10 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
When I read the book for the first time, I was surprised. Both at the
fink's lack of talent in how to talk to a PDP-10's OS (any) and then
his talents for doing things that most of us would want to do one way
or the other. And naturally not do because its really not legal.......
Dave is that system running? Or is it shutdown and waiting?
Shutdown and waiting. It needs a MASSBUS drive to boot from. I'm
pursuing some possibilities on that front, but very slowly.
You then see a crowd of yetis and a bigger crowd of snow leopards at
work, at a machine. You see your available bandwidth shrink and then
realize that's what they are using.
Damn yetis are surfing porn again!
In emacs!!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013, Pontus wrote:
I found the passage in the book, page 107 in this edition, sadly it doesn't say much :(
I need to get a paper/hardcopy edition. It will complement my Microsoft Mouse Programmer's Reference.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Hello!
Good!
When I read the book for the first time, I was surprised. Both at the
fink's lack of talent in how to talk to a PDP-10's OS (any) and then
his talents for doing things that most of us would want to do one way
or the other. And naturally not do because its really not legal.......
Dave is that system running? Or is it shutdown and waiting?
-----
You then see a crowd of yetis and a bigger crowd of snow leopards at
work, at a machine. You see your available bandwidth shrink and then
realize that's what they are using.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 09/23/2013 05:56 PM, Pontus wrote:
I found the passage in the book, page 107 in this edition, sadly it
doesn't say much :(
<quote>
Instead, I sat and watched the hacker deliberately connect to the MX
computer, a PDP-10 at the MIT artificial intelligence labs in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. He logged in as user Litwin and spent almost an hour
learning how to operate that computer. He seemed quite unaccustomed to
the MIT system, and he'd frequently ask for the automated help facility.
In an hour, he'd learned little more than how to list files.
Perhaps because artificial intelligence research is so arcane, he didn't
find much. Certainly the antique operating system didn't provide much
protection - any user could read anyone else's files. But the hacker
didn't realize this. The sheer impossibility of understanding this
system protected their information.
</quote>
"Sheer impossibility" - makes me think ITS :) Further on he comes back
to the PDP-10:
It's very likely that that very computer is here. Two of the three
PDP-10s from the MIT AI Lab are here.
http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECsystem-2020s.jpg
The (original from MIT) handwritten label on the front of the
rightmost one says "This is ML.AI, an ITS".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 09/23/2013 05:56 PM, Pontus wrote:
I found the passage in the book, page 107 in this edition, sadly it
doesn't say much :(
<quote>
Instead, I sat and watched the hacker deliberately connect to the MX
computer, a PDP-10 at the MIT artificial intelligence labs in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. He logged in as user Litwin and spent almost an hour
learning how to operate that computer. He seemed quite unaccustomed to
the MIT system, and he'd frequently ask for the automated help facility.
In an hour, he'd learned little more than how to list files.
Perhaps because artificial intelligence research is so arcane, he didn't
find much. Certainly the antique operating system didn't provide much
protection - any user could read anyone else's files. But the hacker
didn't realize this. The sheer impossibility of understanding this
system protected their information.
</quote>
"Sheer impossibility" - makes me think ITS :) Further on he comes back
to the PDP-10:
It's very likely that that very computer is here. Two of the three
PDP-10s from the MIT AI Lab are here.
http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECsystem-2020s.jpg
The (original from MIT) handwritten label on the front of the
rightmost one says "This is ML.AI, an ITS".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 09/23/2013 04:29 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 3:10 AM, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
I recall that it was a KA10,
but did KA10's run TOPS-20?
I think you are right, but my memory is fuzzy on all this now. IIRC with the MIT/BBN pager modification, KA10's could run ITS or TENEX (aka twinex - which was the Tops-20 pre-cursor ). Folks like dvk or supnik are likely to remember, so I'll try to remember to ask one of them when I see them next. A number of DARPA contractors had modified processors and I'm pretty sure it took a processor modification to run TENEX.
I loved TENEX until I was seduced by UNIX -- maybe its the X in the name that takes you to darkside ;-)
I found the passage in the book, page 107 in this edition, sadly it doesn't say much :(
<quote>
Instead, I sat and watched the hacker deliberately connect to the MX computer, a PDP-10 at the MIT artificial intelligence labs in Cambridge, Massachusetts. He logged in as user Litwin and spent almost an hour learning how to operate that computer. He seemed quite unaccustomed to the MIT system, and he'd frequently ask for the automated help facility. In an hour, he'd learned little more than how to list files.
Perhaps because artificial intelligence research is so arcane, he didn't find much. Certainly the antique operating system didn't provide much protection - any user could read anyone else's files. But the hacker didn't realize this. The sheer impossibility of understanding this system protected their information.
</quote>
"Sheer impossibility" - makes me think ITS :) Further on he comes back to the PDP-10:
<quote>
MIT. I'd forgotten to warn them. I called Karen Sollins of their computer department and told her about Friday night's intrusion. "Don't worry," she sais, "there's not much on that computer, and we're throwing it away in a few weeks."
<quote>
So anyone really interested should find Karen Sollins.
/P
On 2013-09-23 20:07, John Wilson wrote:
From: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
I think you are right, but my memory is fuzzy on all this now. IIRC with
the MIT/BBN pager modification, KA10's could run ITS or TENEX (aka twinex -
which was the Tops-20 pre-cursor ).
I'm 99.99% sure the BBN and MIT pagers are unrelated, even though they were
both built for the KA10 and around the same time. TOPS-20 and ITS paging are
certainly different universes.
I can add that additional 0.01% in that case. And TWENEX was just the joking name for TOPS-20 used by non-DEC people to hint at the heritage from TENEX that TOPS-20 had.
KA10 could run ITS or TENEX. KA10 was never able to run TOPS-20.
I know someone wrote some text about the KL pager microcode which went through some of these details, but I can't find that text right now.
(I think it was the KL pager, but maybe it was the KS)
Johnny
I will look as well. The 1841 is in storage right now (and the other one
is in a box to be shipped to Ian........ eventually *G*)
I can't find where my stash of IOS images went.
I'll let you know when I find a copy.
-brian
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:45:57AM +0100, Mark Darvill wrote:
Hi Tim,
Just got back from Australia today. The Cisco 1800 I have is an 1841.
It is currently using:
Cisco IOS Software, 1841 Software (C1841-BROADBAND-M), Version
12.4(16a), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc2) image name
flash:c1841-broadband-mz.124-16a.bin
So a compatible release with DecNet would be great.
Thanks for your help.
Mark
below
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:07 PM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote:
I'm 99.99% sure the BBN and MIT pagers are unrelated, even though they were both built for the KA10 and around the same time.
Makes sense, that syncs with my memory. I don't remember much about the detail of either of them frankly. That said, I might not state "unrelated" as much as different. Everyone talked (argued) in those days and frankly LCS and BBN are not that far in distance from each other -- there was certainly a lot of flow of ideas if not bits.
TOPS-20 and ITS paging are certainly different universes.
That I remembered.
