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Re: Ooh, Saturn!? (Was: Re: Re: quick help on RSX FORTRAN problem?

by Mark Matlock

Jacob, That is awesome!! I’m glad to see that you made so much progress. I’ll send you some documentation in a few minutes, but you are getting along fine without any. One of the best pieces of documentation are the Quick Reference cards for Calc and Graph. However your PDP-11 collection is even MORE awesome!!! Best, Mark > On Apr 15, 2026, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Off to a decent start, this is AWESOME > > <gmail_images20260415_135405.png> > <gmail_images20260415_135458.png> > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2026, 7:15 AM Mark Matlock <mark(a)matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark@matlockfamily.com>> wrote: > I’m working on finalizing a zipped, RL02 disk image with everything once I finish the README.1ST doc and I’ll put it at a system that can be reached with FTP or WGET. > > It is sad that named directories are not supported. The code base was designed to run on RT-11 / TSX, RSTS/E and RSX11M/M+ so named directories were not a priority for Saturn at the time. Later, they migrated it to VAX and the VMS version does support named directories. Without source code or even object code, it is very difficult to do much. I’m in communication with the original programmer for Saturn Calc who thinks he might have a CDROM with the source code in a storage unit in Indiana, but he lives in the Caribbean. If/when he ever makes it up there to look for it, we might lucky. Just finding all the user manuals has been a challenge. If we did have the source code, I think it would be possible to make a number of improvements. > > Best, > Mark > > > On Apr 15, 2026, at 4:23 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)softjar.se <mailto:bqt@softjar.se>> wrote: > > > > NFT should default to block mode if you don't say anything, and it's between two RSX systems. But if possible, use FTP instead, since it will be much faster. > > > > The only sad thing about the Saturn software, so far, seems to be that it don't deal with named directories. Which is annoying. Not trivial to fix, but maybe someone will feel enthusiastic enough to maybe work on that one day... > > > > Johnny > > > >> On 15/04/2026 05.13, Mark Matlock wrote: > >> Jacob, > >> I’m currently working on a README.1ST type of overview document which I can send you tomorrow as I am just adding a new section on the use of Saturn Graph with Rene Richarz TEK4010 emulator. If you have a VT240, VT330 or VT340 you can use the Regis graphics on them. Saturn Calc and WP will work with any VT or VT emulation as long as the PF1-PF4 keys are mapped. > >> I have a disk image I’m also working on that willmake the distribution easier, but it’s not ready yet so the quickest wayto take a look at it is to start transferring the individual files from RDP1::DU1:[DECNET] I’ve put the ~190 files, ~7500 blocks (lots of examples) in the default DECnet directory. I’d suggest transferring with the NFT /BK block mode transfer switch since we are going from RSX to RSX. NFT is much faster that way. > >> In the files INSAT.CMD is a command file that will copy the needed .SAT and .HLP files, set the global logical needed and install the various tasks. I just checked and it does expect the Saturn distribution to be at LB:[10,3] so if that works ok for you good, otherwise you can make a quick edit to INSAT.CMD > >> I have the most documentation for Saturn Calc, a bit on Graph, but little on WP so I’m looking for that. Fortunately, all of theseprograms are quite easy to learn. I’ll also send what documentation I have tomorrow and I know Johnny has some Saturn manuals on MIM. > >> I’d love to hear about any discoveries or problems you run into with the software. Also, its great to hear you have a running real 11/70 ! > >> Best Regards, > >> Mark > >>>> On Apr 14, 2026, at 7:26 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto(a)gmail.com <mailto:jacob.ritorto@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Mark, This is really wonderful news, I am so appreciative of your and Lee’s work! > >>> I’ll help with anything you say - I have CHOIPN:: and THNITH::, real RSX 11/70 and ‘83 on HECnet and would be very happy to grab the kit and test at the very least. Just let me know what to do and whatyou think needs exercise. I’m most interested in WP and maybe Graph. > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> —jake > >>> > >>>> On Apr 11, 2026, at 15:54, Mark Matlock <mark(a)matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark@matlockfamily.com>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Jacob, > >>>> I have also been waiting a long time to be able to use Saturn Calc and Graph. Over the years, I’ve collected various distributions but the licenses that I had for the RSX version no longer seemed to work. It was distributed as task images, instead of object libraries which would have been easier to hack. The Saturn Calc task would check for a couple files and it is had not been modified by the license key program it just exited. > >>>> > >>>> A good friend, Lee Gleason developed some fantastic tools (see https://rsx11.blogspot.com/2026/02/ <https://rsx11.blogspot.com/2026/02/> <https:// rsx11.blogspot.com/2026/02/ <http://rsx11.blogspot.com/2026/02/>> ) to be able to get a t-bit trace of the executing Saturn Calc task that recorded the PC and the first word of the instruction being executed. However RSX works very hard not to allow a task to run with the t-bit trap set. Lee had to modify both INS and FIX in multiple places to NOT clear the t-bit trap in the task header PSW if it is set. When the program exited since the license had not activated it, we would look at the last instruction, an EMT 377, to call RSX EXIT$ directive. Then we would work backward to the conditional branch that could have skipped over the exit and make it unconditional. > >>>> > >>>> These tasks are heavily overlaid so one also has to find which overlay has a EMT 377 in the correct PC value, then find the location of that overlay in the task image. This involved a lot of octal decoding to PDP-11 instructions with ZAP. Each of the many Saturn tasks had to be hacked and they had a couple spots that had to be ZAPped. But now we have working versions of Saturn Calc, Graph and WP and are just finishing checking to see if anything is broke. > >>>> > >>>> So far it looks good, but there are a couple caveats. First, the RSX Saturn software doesn’t understand named directories so you should be in a UIC based directory when you use it. Second, there is an obscure bug that I have not been able to solve and don’t know if it was always there or was somehow introduced by our hacks and zaps. It involves SUM or AVG calculations across a range when the range of input values are calculated. If they input cells have standard numbers, it works fine. I came up with a work around that can be used if one really needs that functionality. > >>>> > >>>> Saturn Graph is working very well. I can create a line, bar orpie chart either in SIG or from a Calc spreadsheet, then display it on a VT240, VT330 or VT340 Regis terminal, then when I’m ready to make a hard copy send it to a (HPGL) HP7550 plotter or even a LA50 (sixel) printer. The VT340 mouse even works with the drawing program. > >>>> > >>>> I’ve created a command file that will install everything and I would be interested in a beta tester or two who are somewhat familiar with Saturn to see if there are any issues remaining. Saturn provided many example files and I’m including them as well. There are in total about 7500 blocks in 190 files. > >>>> > >>>> If you have an RSX system on HECnet, I can put them where you could NFT them back to your system. If not let me know and I can package things in a disk image for ftp or wget. Ultimately, Johnny said he might be interested in creating an RPM package. > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Mark Matlock > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 10, 2026, at 6:58 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto(a)gmail.com <mailto:jacob.ritorto@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026, 7:55 AM Mark Matlock <mark(a)matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark@matlockfamily.com> <mailto:mark@matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark@matlockfamily.com>>> in one of my Saturn Calc spreadsheets (that I can now read once again). > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mark! I've been wanting Saturn so long! What's the news that enables you to read your old sheets again? And may I have a copy? :) > >>>>> > >>>>> Thx > >>>>> jake > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> > >>> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> > >

5 days, 13 hours

quick help on RSX FORTRAN problem?

by Dave McGuire

Hey folks, before I start digging into this, I figured I'd ask here. A simple "hello world" program in F77 on RSX-11M-PLUS fails to start thusly: $ run hello TT3 -- Exiting due to ERROR 2 Task initialization failure I was trying to move a larger FORTRAN program to this system (the 11/70 at LSSM) and it was dying with this message, so I wrote a quickie test case to narrow it down. It's just a write to unit 5: WRITE(5,10) 10 FORMAT(' Hello World!') END ...compiled with "FORTRAN HELLO", and linked with: L HELLO,LB:[1,1]F77FCS/LIB No warnings or errors. It runs fine on my 11/83 at home with a very similar config. Before I dig in, can anyone quickly point me to what I'm missing? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

5 days, 20 hours

Re: [simh] MUDs TOPS again

by Paul Koning

> On Mar 20, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Paul Koning via groups.io <paulkoning=comcast.net(a)groups.io> wrote: > > > >> On Mar 20, 2026, at 2:00 PM, John H. Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt(a)thereinhardts.org> wrote: >> >> I'm guessing this perhaps was one of the sources. >> >> https://mud.fandom.com/wiki/MUD1 >> >>> MUD1 (referred to as MUD1, to distinguish from its successor, MUD2) is the oldest virtual world in existence. It was created in 1978 by Roy Trubshaw at Essex University on a DEC PDP-10 in the UK, using the MACRO-10 assembly language. He named the game Multi-User Dungeon, in tribute to the Dungeon variant of Zork, which Trubshaw had greatly enjoyed playing.[1][2] Zork in turn was inspired by an older text-adventure game known as Colossal Cave Adventure or ADVENT.[3] >> >> John H. Reinhardt > > That source is certainly very wrong about history. > > paul I can't help them with their errors, but it's amusing to notice that, while PLATO is not listed as an article, several other articles mention it, including the one on Dnd -- https://mud.fandom.com/wiki/Dnd -- which credits authors Whisenhunt and Wood. A lot more PLATO history can be found in The Friendly Orange Glow by Brian Dear. paul

4 weeks

MUDs TOPS again

by Jon Morgan

(Apologies for the cross-posting.) I very good friend of mine has been doing some digital archaeology. https://infosec.exchange/@lorry/116257448642523972 I think a lot of folks here would like what he’s done. -jon. -- Jon Morgan "Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon."

1 month

Bugfix for PyDECnet

by Paul Koning

If you want to communicate from PyDECnet to a Phase III node, a new bugfix release V1.1.1 (on akdesign.dyndns.org:8080 <http://akdesign.dyndns.org:8080/>) may be helpful. It fixes an NSP bug that was setting a Phase IV only flag, and some Phase III nodes (DECnet/RT for example) then toss the offending message. paul

1 month

DDCMP Connection issues via PyDECnet

by John H. Reinhardt

Greetings! Mentioning pyDECnet might be a red herring, but that's what I'm using to connect to HECnet so I'm mentioning it. I'm trying to connect to Mark Matlock's RSX11M.COM (Static IP:216.177.191.101) and we are getting some weird errors. My pyDECnet circuit line looks like this - modeled after Supratim's circuit config that he sent me last year.: circuit DDCMP-30-1 DDCMP tcp:60001:rsx11m.com:7728 --t3=15 --cost=9 On Mark's side he has an RSX11M host as the area router and the connection for me is set up thusly: MNC SET CIR IP-0-5 MODE DDCMP MNC SET CIR IP-0-5 TCP HOST 0.0.0.0:0 PORT 7728 NCP SET CIR IP-0-5 STA ON The connection isn't working. Mark is seeing errors like this: 02:53:40 MLTNET - IP-0-5 Incoming packet size error (1541) from 76.213.76.105:51354. Abort. 02:53:42 MLTNET - IP-0-5 Incoming packet size error (1541) from 76.213.76.105:34404. Abort. 02:53:44 MLTNET - IP-0-5 Incoming packet size error (1541) from 76.213.76.105:34412. Abort. The A17RTR node has what look to be the normal settings. the Segment buffer size is normal for DDCMP. NCP>tell a17rtr show exe char Node Volatile Characteristics as of 2-MAR-2026 09:35:20 Executor node = 17.1023 (A17RTR) Identification = THEMIS2 - A17RTR - DECnet/Python Area-17 Router at Saginaw, TX (DFW) Management version = V4.0.0 Software identification = DECnet/Python V1.1.0 Incoming timer = 30 Outgoing timer = 30 NSP version = V4.0.0 Maximum links = 4095 Delay factor = 32 Delay weight = 3 Inactivity timer = 300 Retransmit factor = 5 Routing version = V2.0.0 Type = area Maximum area = 63 Area maximum cost = 128 Area maximum hops = 16 Segment buffer size = 576 Does anyone know what causes the packet size to be bigger than normal? The ethernet interface on the pyDECnet host is set to 1500MTU as is my firewall/router. Where else can I look? I don't see anything in the pyDECnet documentation that talks about DDCMP packet size. Where else can I look? Regards, John H. Reinhardt

1 month, 2 weeks

Re: DDCMP Connection issues via PyDECnet

by Johnny Billquist

On 2026-03-02 18:42, John H. Reinhardt wrote: > On 3/2/2026 10:44 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> Hm. The command "MNC SET CIR IP-0-5 MODE DDCMP" should have given a >> warning that this has been deprecated. In essence, it does nothing. >> >> All links are just multinet links, which is DDCMP, with a small header >> to just get whole packets when using TCP. >> >> Johnny >> > > That explains the "MLTNET" in Marks error log. So, if I set up the > phDECnet circuit as a Multinet one is should work? Sortof yes, but no. The errors are because RSX is receiving packets without that multinet header. What I meant with the above was this: .mnc set cir ip-0-3 mode ddcmp MODE have been deprecated. Please update any configuration scripts. . You should have gotten those errors in RSX when doing the command. But yes, also, the fact that you set your PyDECnet side to talk DDCMP caused the errors when receiving packets. >> On 02/03/2026 17.38, Johnny Billquist wrote: >>> I don't think I've ever tried that DDCMP mode. I don't even remember >>> what it does... >>> >>> Why are you wanting to use it? >>> >>> Johnny >>> > > Because that's what I was told needed to be done to connect to other > HECnet nodes? Mark has several set up that way and so does Supratim. Whoever said that is confused and wrong. Sorry. You need to set up Multinet links. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

1 month, 2 weeks

Is there a copy of VMSfreeware on HECnet?

by Jacob Ritorto

Hi, Just needing to install stuff to a freshly installed VAXstation that’s on HECnet and don’t have many other options for file transfer at the moment.. Is there a VMS Freeware CD shared anywhere? thx jake

1 month, 3 weeks

DECnet Finger Specification (Possible re-post) and Tops-20 Finger Setup Documentation (New)

by Thomas DeBellis

Some time ago in 2024, while I was writing the Tops-20 Finger Server, Johnny and I collaborated on a finger specification for Finger over DECnet. By 'collaborate', I mean I tried putting something together and Johnny pointed out the mistakes and things iterated from there. It is hopefully better than an RFC. The major difference from the Internet specification is that the protocol more closely aligns with a record orientated paradigm which is more appropriate for DECnet applications. It can be told to do otherwise and stream large buffers, but the default is for the application to limit messages to line at time of no more than about 100 characters. I don't remember if I ever publicly announced availability, but it can be found on VENTI2::DECNET-FINGER-SPECIFICATION.TXT for anonymous NFT. The Tops-20 Finger server itself was effectively complete enough last year that I felt it appropriate to write a setup guide. It can be read as a companion piece to the DECnet specification for more background information on how to implement the protocol. Further, and perhaps of more interest, it shows how to set up a network service on Tops-20 without Operator capability, which makes the server safer to run. Think of not using Administrator (on Windows), root (on Ultrix), or SYS:, JACCT or [1,2] (on Tops-10) if you know what those are. I don't know what the equivalent is on other DEC operating systems. It can also be found on VENTI2::FNGSRV-SETUP.TXT.TXT for anonymous NFT. If there are other DECnet finger clients on HECnet than Johnny's or mine, I would be delighted to hear about it. It's pretty trivial; you open a connection to a remote host on object 117 (decimal) and send either a carriage return, a line feed (which gets you the default full system listing) or a user name followed by one of those two characters. You then read responses and print them until the connection closes. That's it. That's all. Maybe a one or two line Python program? I could probably still do a trivial BLISS Common client, but I don't recall having learned the DECnet API for VMS. At Marlboro, the little Bliss work that I did was for Tops-20 and Tops-10 and didn't do DECnet. Supposedly, it would have been easy enough to run on VMS, but I never had the opportunity. The only DECnet finger servers that are in full time production that I am aware of are running on MIM:: and VENTI2::. TOMMYT:: runs it on an experimental basis, but requires a monitor upgrade and reconfiguration to do a full installation in order to go into production. I'll do that later this year, I hope.

2 months, 3 weeks

THEARK 2.299 and the hosts behind it are going dark for a few months

by Mike Kostersitz

As we are preparing our relocation to Oregon, I have shut down my home network almost completely taking down all my HECNET nodes. I expect them to be back online in May or June Mike

3 months

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