I forgot to add...
When I am confident of this new version I will send it to Johnny for his
review and possible inclusion of a "sanctioned" release. We will see...
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of gerry77 at mail.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 14:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:19:38 -0500, you wrote:
I would be willing to put my InfoServer-100 (with a six-stack CDROM
drive) up on the HECnet segment. With the new version of the bridge
that we are field testing it might be interesting to see what is
Will that new version be available on Johnny Billquist HECnet website as
an
official new release of the bridge or is a somewhat private fork?
possible. I have just purchased a (real not hobbyist) VMS V7.3-1 kit
for VAXen to try this out on - it should be here sometime next week.
Anyway, IIRC, even a hobbyist CD-ROM would work in the same way, I'm
right?
I can make the system available to any and all who would like to login
to it and play/learn/hack etc. When the VMS kit shows up I will send
additional mail.
Well, I'm very interested in the structure and contents of an InfoServer
system disk as it results from INITIALIZE and UPDATE SYSTEM commands.
When
you'll be ready to share, I hope we'll be able to arrange something to
let
me have a peek at that disk structure! 8-)
Thanks,
G.
My version splits out LAT from MOP, adds SCA (LAVc) and LAST
(InfoServer). The LAT/MOP split has been verified to work. LAVc
support is being tested now. The LAST support testing is pending. What
I have been doing is testing as the central hub. I do not pass along
*anything* new to Update.UU.SE - I don't want the whole of HECnet to
suffer the traffic if this version isn't up to the task.
We know that it successfully builds on NetBSD V04.00 (because that's
what I run) and Ubuntu Linux (32-bit version only) because that's what
has been running on the other end.
My InfoServer-100 (ISIS) will be up later today with an earlier version
of VMS (V5.x I think, depends on what I can find) just for testing.
If you wish to test this version of bridge.c (bridge-2.2.c) contact me
off-list.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of gerry77 at mail.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 14:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:19:38 -0500, you wrote:
I would be willing to put my InfoServer-100 (with a six-stack CDROM
drive) up on the HECnet segment. With the new version of the bridge
that we are field testing it might be interesting to see what is
Will that new version be available on Johnny Billquist HECnet website as
an
official new release of the bridge or is a somewhat private fork?
possible. I have just purchased a (real not hobbyist) VMS V7.3-1 kit
for VAXen to try this out on - it should be here sometime next week.
Anyway, IIRC, even a hobbyist CD-ROM would work in the same way, I'm
right?
I can make the system available to any and all who would like to login
to it and play/learn/hack etc. When the VMS kit shows up I will send
additional mail.
Well, I'm very interested in the structure and contents of an InfoServer
system disk as it results from INITIALIZE and UPDATE SYSTEM commands.
When
you'll be ready to share, I hope we'll be able to arrange something to
let
me have a peek at that disk structure! 8-)
Thanks,
G.
I would be willing to put my InfoServer-100 (with a six-stack CDROM
drive) up on the HECnet segment. With the new version of the bridge
that we are field testing it might be interesting to see what is
possible. I have just purchased a (real not hobbyist) VMS V7.3-1 kit
for VAXen to try this out on - it should be here sometime next week.
I can make the system available to any and all who would like to login
to it and play/learn/hack etc. When the VMS kit shows up I will send
additional mail.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Fred
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 08:56
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the
ROM
firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real
InfoServer
which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it?
set hope/mode=on
Would SIMH be up to this task? Can it simulate the needed hardware?
If so, that would be the easy test needed. See if a SIMH Infoserver
could
boot a real VAX. At least it would be "closer" ... (hey, work with me
here ... *grin*)
Fred
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the ROM
firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real InfoServer
which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it?
set hope/mode=on
Would SIMH be up to this task? Can it simulate the needed hardware?
If so, that would be the easy test needed. See if a SIMH Infoserver could boot a real VAX. At least it would be "closer" ... (hey, work with me here ... *grin*)
Fred
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:16:24 +0200, you wrote:
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer
ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM
drive (also narrow).
It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the ROM
firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real InfoServer
which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it?
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's
a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's,
the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
Kari, do you know the meaning and use of the various files inside the
software CD? In the [SYSD] root there are SYSBOOT.EXE, SYSLOCS.EXE, and
LOCSUPDATE.EXE which is functionally equal to the IS1000_V35.SYS file
present in [SYS0]. Moreover, in the [SYSD] root there is also a ESS$BOOT.PAR
file which is an ODS-2 image containing again SYSBOOT.EXE and SYSLOCS.EXE
(exactly equal to the former) and LOCSUPDATE.SYS which is identical to
IS1000_V35.SYS in [SYS0]... Chineese boxes indeed!
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the
Infoserver software CD like:
B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then
you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
Something like:
InfoServer> SET SERVER STATE OFF
InfoServer> INITIALIZE DK1
InfoServer> UPDATE SYSTEM DK2 DK1
InfoServer> SET SERVER STATE ON
DK2 Should be the first CD-ROM and DK1 should be the system disk. See the
following "InfoServer System Operations Guide" (file name mismatches):
http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/installation_guide/installation_guide…
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have
space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When
Wouldn't it be enough to directly serve the VAX OpenVMS CD-ROM off the
InfoServer without copying its entire contents into an Infoserver partition?
The InfoServer would use the ISL_SCRIPT.ESS file found in [000000] to
automatically MOP-serve the ISL files.
Cheers,
G.
gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:31:14 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver
software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up.
It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the
software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and
ignores it.
If you could test with another Alpha system it would be nice to pinpoint the
differences between a VAX<-->InfoServer and an Alpha<-->InfoServer dialog,
and to ascertain that your configuration works (besides the VAX).
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
My dream, in some remote future, is to have a little InfoServer daemon
running on Linux, just like mopd and latd... Christine... :-)
I've been asked about this a few times actually. But I've never even
seen an info server, let alone owned one - so reverse-engineering the
protocol is probably a little hard ;-)
No offers of hardware though ... please! I'm trying to get rid of
equipment at the moment, not acquire it, sorry.
--
Chrissie
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:31:14 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver
software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up.
It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the
software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and
ignores it.
If you could test with another Alpha system it would be nice to pinpoint the
differences between a VAX<-->InfoServer and an Alpha<-->InfoServer dialog,
and to ascertain that your configuration works (besides the VAX).
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
My dream, in some remote future, is to have a little InfoServer daemon
running on Linux, just like mopd and latd... Christine... :-)
Cheers,
G.
The OS used 1MB and the rest was disk/file cache. Quite fast even on a 10Mb non-switched LAN. We used them to serve up bookreader files, ISL's, and Field Service diagnostics. We set session limits to 100 on the bookreader partition. Even with 100 clients performance was amazing! We were able to pay for the unit by not purchasing either 3 or 4 full VMS documentation sets. Great return on investment.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:57
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Indeed, the memory is limited, but it doesn't much affect the Infoserver
software. It's not a resource hog like modern software.
Kari
Steve Davidson wrote:
Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based)
Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your
own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer
ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM
drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's
a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's,
the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the
Infoserver software CD like:
B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then
you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive
using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have
space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When
it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS
VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the
service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the
option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and
image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the
ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor
user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting
in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols
come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver
software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up.
It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the
software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and
ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to
check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the
host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my
Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set
that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get
access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into
the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm
very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
.
Indeed, the memory is limited, but it doesn't much affect the Infoserver software. It's not a resource hog like modern software.
Kari
Steve Davidson wrote:
Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like:
>>> B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
.
Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based)
Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your
own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer
ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM
drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's
a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's,
the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the
Infoserver software CD like:
B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then
you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive
using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have
space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When
it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS
VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the
service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the
option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and
image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the
ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor
user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting
in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols
come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver
software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up.
It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the
software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and
ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to
check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the
host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my
Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set
that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get
access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into
the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm
very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
