Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
On 07/10/2013 14:04, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
Only has 13 views so I was thinking you might not have seen this video.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfBMyvIBYAw
There are so few videos. Have any of you seen the doco that was released by PBS in the US? Its not available from anywhere except the PBS online strore and they wont ship overseas.
Regards,
Daniel.
Wow, thanks for sharing that, what an amazing data centre.
It'll make the folks on this list drool for sure!
I saw your comment there too. I finally got to see what you look like.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Only has 13 views so I was thinking you might not have seen this video.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfBMyvIBYAw
There are so few videos. Have any of you seen the doco that was released by PBS in the US? Its not available from anywhere except the PBS online strore and they wont ship overseas.
Regards,
Daniel.
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 11:48:10AM +0800, Tim Sneddon wrote:
Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4
was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was
initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was
promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed
some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I
would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at
HP greatly affected the quality.
I have a friend who is a full time VMS admin and boy let me tell you
about the bitching he did when he did his first 8.4 upgrade. He was not
happy at all. :)
I was part of FT for V8.4. THis, however, was during the time of the off-
shoring transition and, for the most part, there were few issue that I had
found. Once the final V8.4 hit the street, hoever, it was chock full with
bugs and issues. The first issue to concerned me most was broken X11 tun-
neling in ssh. That pretty much made the general release version of V8.4
usless AFAIWC. It took many many emails to the new kids on the block until
they were able to understand that ssh X11 tunneling was not the same as a
telnet from a PeeCee WEENDOZE terminal emulator. Fortunately, there were
still a few, former, ZKOans and MROans retained who evidently helped them
to see the light.
There were several other issues which, eventually, have been address and
V8.4 is now rather stable. You'll need to get one of the remastered V8.4
distributions which has several patch updates applied to it to use V8.4.
FWIW, not all of the present problems can be attributed to the off-shore
group. They actually have fixed some bugs that were there for some time.
I uncovered a day-one bug in the INSQ*I and REMQ*I primitives on Itanium
back in May or 2102. (Described here: http://tmesis.org/?e=43 ) First,
CDC was informed and I provided them with some simple reproducers as well
as my analysis of the Itanium code (detailed in the cited URL). This was
then forwarded to the India development group. Clair Grant was still on
the job at that time, however, and I believe he governed over the changes
to fix the problem.
I've met with and spoken with (face to face) a number of the members of
the India group. They're all very bright people but I believe they lack
a discipline that can only be had with decades of experience.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 11:48:10AM +0800, Tim Sneddon wrote:
Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4
was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was
initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was
promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed
some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I
would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at
HP greatly affected the quality.
I have a friend who is a full time VMS admin and boy let me tell you
about the bitching he did when he did his first 8.4 upgrade. He was not
happy at all. :)
-brian
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello,
After the reinstall to 7.3 I've made progress! UUCP no longer gives quota
exceeded errors...it just gives a message about it having aborted.
Nothing else is in the debug logs.
Enable image accounting and see what is left in there after UUCP aborts.
CC, Pascal, COBOL, and FORTRAN also
seem to be in DCLTABLES for awhile...but after I log out they're no longer
listed. WTF?
How are you "listing" CC, Pascal and Fortran verbs in DCLTABLES? Where
is DCLTABLES.EXE on your system? It should reside in SYS$COMMON[SYSLIB].
I've run their requisite startup scripts! How the hell did
I break DCLTABLES?
What makes you think that you did?
(I've increased the page table limits in case they
were getting full. I'm also getting no debug info related to this,
either)
At least the quota issues disappeared. ;)
Let's assume you have no need for your prior accounting information...
$ SET ACCOUNTING/NEW_FILE/ENABLE=IMAGE
Execute the UUCP command(s) which fail.
$ ACCOUNTING/SINCE=TODAY
Post that output and let's see if there's anything revealing in there.
Also, you can $ SET ACCOUNTING/DISABLE=IMAGE because /ENABLE=IMAGE can
become a resource hog.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
He may be ROTFL because of the 6.3 reference :)
Van: Cory Smelosky
Verzonden: maandag 7 oktober 2013 01:19
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
> Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
>
>>
>>> =20
>>> Lighter???
>>> =20
>>> FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX=
>>
>>> hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within=20=
>>
>>
>> VMS 3
>> 0.9 million lines of code
>>
>> VMS 5.4
>> 6.5 million lines of code
>>
>> VMS 7.1
>> 25 million lines of code
>>
>> I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I was g=
>> iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
>
> OO! ROTFLMFA0!
>
>
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure
none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Any chance you have got two different DCLTABLES in SYS$COMMON and SYS$SPECIFIC?
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa
El 07/10/2013, a les 5:15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello,
After the reinstall to 7.3 I've made progress! UUCP no longer gives quota exceeded errors...it just gives a message about it having aborted. Nothing else is in the debug logs. CC, Pascal, COBOL, and FORTRAN also seem to be in DCLTABLES for awhile...but after I log out they're no longer listed. WTF? I've run their requisite startup scripts! How the hell did I break DCLTABLES? (I've increased the page table limits in case they were getting full. I'm also getting no debug info related to this, either)
At least the quota issues disappeared. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Tim Sneddon wrote:
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
=20
Lighter???
=20
FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your
VAX=
hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained
within=20=
VMS 3
0.9 million lines of code
VMS 5.4
6.5 million lines of code
VMS 7.1
25 million lines of code
I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I
was g=
iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
OO! ROTFLMFA0!
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure
none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any C++ in there. Possibly in the
language RTL. I know that GEM had a bit of C++ thrown in at the end of its
life, but it too is mostly BLISS.
I figured that much. I knew none of the core components were OO. ;)
Although I'm late to the party on this thread, I can't agree more (as I
have said to Daniel in a private thread). V7.3 on VAX is absolutely the
way to go, especially if you intend to use HPs TCP/IP package. As for
Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4
was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was
initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was
promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed
some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I
would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at
HP greatly affected the quality.
Regards, Tim.
I'd agree. I've had better luck with 7.3 except for the teething problems from user error. (Like installed products randomly disappearing from DCLTABLES...again likely user error)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
=20
Lighter???
=20
FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX=
hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within=20=
VMS 3
0.9 million lines of code
VMS 5.4
6.5 million lines of code
VMS 7.1
25 million lines of code
I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I was g=
iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
OO! ROTFLMFA0!
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any C++ in there. Possibly in the language RTL. I know that GEM had a bit of C++ thrown in at the end of its life, but it too is mostly BLISS.
Although I'm late to the party on this thread, I can't agree more (as I have said to Daniel in a private thread). V7.3 on VAX is absolutely the way to go, especially if you intend to use HPs TCP/IP package. As for Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4 was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at HP greatly affected the quality.
Regards, Tim.
