He may be ROTFL because of the 6.3 reference :)
Van: Cory Smelosky
Verzonden: maandag 7 oktober 2013 01:19
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
> Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
>
>>
>>> =20
>>> Lighter???
>>> =20
>>> FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX=
>>
>>> hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within=20=
>>
>>
>> VMS 3
>> 0.9 million lines of code
>>
>> VMS 5.4
>> 6.5 million lines of code
>>
>> VMS 7.1
>> 25 million lines of code
>>
>> I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I was g=
>> iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
>
> OO! ROTFLMFA0!
>
>
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure
none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Any chance you have got two different DCLTABLES in SYS$COMMON and SYS$SPECIFIC?
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa
El 07/10/2013, a les 5:15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello,
After the reinstall to 7.3 I've made progress! UUCP no longer gives quota exceeded errors...it just gives a message about it having aborted. Nothing else is in the debug logs. CC, Pascal, COBOL, and FORTRAN also seem to be in DCLTABLES for awhile...but after I log out they're no longer listed. WTF? I've run their requisite startup scripts! How the hell did I break DCLTABLES? (I've increased the page table limits in case they were getting full. I'm also getting no debug info related to this, either)
At least the quota issues disappeared. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Tim Sneddon wrote:
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
=20
Lighter???
=20
FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your
VAX=
hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained
within=20=
VMS 3
0.9 million lines of code
VMS 5.4
6.5 million lines of code
VMS 7.1
25 million lines of code
I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I
was g=
iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
OO! ROTFLMFA0!
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure
none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any C++ in there. Possibly in the
language RTL. I know that GEM had a bit of C++ thrown in at the end of its
life, but it too is mostly BLISS.
I figured that much. I knew none of the core components were OO. ;)
Although I'm late to the party on this thread, I can't agree more (as I
have said to Daniel in a private thread). V7.3 on VAX is absolutely the
way to go, especially if you intend to use HPs TCP/IP package. As for
Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4
was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was
initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was
promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed
some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I
would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at
HP greatly affected the quality.
Regards, Tim.
I'd agree. I've had better luck with 7.3 except for the teething problems from user error. (Like installed products randomly disappearing from DCLTABLES...again likely user error)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
yOn Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
=20
Lighter???
=20
FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX=
hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within=20=
VMS 3
0.9 million lines of code
VMS 5.4
6.5 million lines of code
VMS 7.1
25 million lines of code
I'd like to go back to 5.5H4 and avoid the bloat from OO programming. I was g=
iven advice previously that 6.3 is best for old VAX's.=20
OO! ROTFLMFA0!
OpenVMS may be written in about 8 different languages but I'm fairly sure none are OO...except MAYBE the few C++ bits according to Wikipedia.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any C++ in there. Possibly in the language RTL. I know that GEM had a bit of C++ thrown in at the end of its life, but it too is mostly BLISS.
Although I'm late to the party on this thread, I can't agree more (as I have said to Daniel in a private thread). V7.3 on VAX is absolutely the way to go, especially if you intend to use HPs TCP/IP package. As for Alpha I'd go with V8.3 and Itanium, V8.3-1H1. As Brian pointed out V8,4 was the first release post off-shoring. The work done for this release was initiated when ZKO was being shutdown and moved to MRO, which too was promptly shutdown and moved to India. As someone who has used and observed some serious issues with this release (which I believe Brian is too) I would not recommend it at all. It is my belief that that the goings on at HP greatly affected the quality.
Regards, Tim.
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello,
After the reinstall to 7.3 I've made progress! UUCP no longer gives quota exceeded errors...it just gives a message about it having aborted. Nothing else is in the debug logs. CC, Pascal, COBOL, and FORTRAN also seem to be in DCLTABLES for awhile...but after I log out they're no longer listed. WTF? I've run their requisite startup scripts! How the hell did I break DCLTABLES? (I've increased the page table limits in case they were getting full. I'm also getting no debug info related to this, either)
At least the quota issues disappeared. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Hello!
I don't have to mess around with dynamic DNS either. Mine is arranged
as a static set of two (or three) addresses. The address that the
router gets from the CPE is dynamic and constructed via PPPoe.
My person website is supported via one of those firms who takes the
changeable and thus non static DSL (or PPPoE) IP address and turns it
into one that the website name registry firm will accept, via selected
host.
So far the only sticky is that of a mail server. It turns out that the
physics behind a name registry for DNS and its records needs a fixed
IP address, as Static, and that I'd need SDSL for.
Oh and I go over my ISP billing ideas every time the contract comes up
for renewal.
So there you go Daniel.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
Greetings,
My apologies, I should have been clearer. Just anyone who hadn't checked their ISP's pricing for a while. I was pleasantly surprised to find I wouldn't have to mess around with dynamic DNS or pay extra.
Daniel.
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Oct 2013, at 8:24 am, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
Then who were you referring to?
That? I arranged it.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again.
Greetings,
My apologies, I should have been clearer. Just anyone who hadn't checked their ISP's pricing for a while. I was pleasantly surprised to find I wouldn't have to mess around with dynamic DNS or pay extra.
Daniel.
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Oct 2013, at 8:24 am, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
Then who were you referring to?
That? I arranged it.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again.
Hello!
Then who were you referring to?
That? I arranged it.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
I wasn't referring to Peter! (why is there a drone hovering above my house?
Jag har inte gjort n got fel!)
:)
Daniel.
On 07/10/2013, at 3:20 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-10-06 10:51, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
Why not just get a static IP? Kiddies are pirating so much that for the same
$ I sacrificed 100gb but got unmetered uploads and ANNEX M. That still
leaves me with 100GB. How much do you need?
I don't think $ is Peters main concern. Nor speed. This from 6 years ago...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/Internetlife/2007-07-19-swedis…
Johnny
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2013, at 4:37 pm, Peter Lothberg <roll at Stupi.SE> wrote:
Are the scripts not running?
Scripts?
Brian's scripts that push out new configs upon IP change.
I don't have brians scripts, and I'm using a config tool based on
netconf/yang to configure my routers. A Yang model for HECNet, anyone?
Meanwhile, if anyone need me to change a tunel on a box I hapens to
operate, send me a email with the needed info.
(Why do addresses change? T10 nor T20 speak DHCP or ND?)
-P
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> writes:
I don't know where modern iterations of VMS were developed. Considering =
what HP did with their calculator division, I was suspicious they'd =
"partnered" or "right sized" development to bombay.
Until roughly 2011, VMS was developed in the MRO and ZKO facilites of the
old DEC empire. It was transitions to the India group in that time. V8.4
was the first release that was, more or less, handled outside traditional
DEC.
Anyone benchmarked versions of VMS? I thought that pre-64 bit might run =
better on an old VAX.
Doubtful.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
I don't know where modern iterations of VMS were developed. Considering what HP did with their calculator division, I was suspicious they'd "partnered" or "right sized" development to bombay.
Anyone benchmarked versions of VMS? I thought that pre-64 bit might run better on an old VAX.
Daniel.
On 07/10/2013, at 7:56 AM, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Had. :(
At one ZKO meeting, he and another fellow (I know his name but will elide
it from discussion here) had a battle of wits and I left, the room, as I
remember, in tears from laughter.
FWIW, the SECURITY_SERVER in VMS is mostly Larry's handiwork.
Back to the theme of this thread: Don't confuse the volume of source with
the efficiency of the code.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
