On 29 Nov 2012, at 16:20, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
Sorry, I know longer have an Alpha so I can not try this myself. But I'll be glad to answer any question I can about it. Frankly I've forgotten if it was 28 or 48 bits - but check the FreeBSD/Alpha sources on FreeBSD.org. The DS10 was one of the systems that it supported and it should be reasonable easy to figure out from the driver. Another thought is look at Supnik's simh sources, when he might have it in there. As you say the support chipset is fairly late Si so their a high probability that it will work. If it does, I would expect that a IDE to XXX converter will work also so you could put current manufactured disks into it.
A little known fact about the Alphas. DEC (and Sun for that matter) both used a triple interface Qlogic controller (I've forgotten the model number - but both companies used but with slightly different roms. That was the default controller for the DEC written OSs. But because of NT, DEC had to support the Adaptec family also and any DS10 or equiv that shipped with NT on it had an Adaptec 2940 controller not a Qlogic in it. The boot roms will work fine if you put one into it. In fact when we did the FreeBSD port, we started with Adaptec controller because at the time *BSD did not have a Qlogic driver.
Speaking of NT on Alpha, does HECnet have any Alphas running NT?
If not, which alphas did NT support? I might try to bring up NT/alpha in a VM.
Furthuremore, it's not in any SPD that I know of, but Tru64 will recognize and boot from an Adaptec controller -- the DS10 in my office MRO did just that. IIRC: VMS will work with an Adaptec but can not boot off it.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
>> I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
>> largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
>
> "Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
>
> Page 7:
> ---
> Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
> GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
> Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
> cage.
>
> Page 12
> ---
> System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
> 218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
>
> --
> I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Sorry, I know longer have an Alpha so I can not try this myself. But I'll be glad to answer any question I can about it. Frankly I've forgotten if it was 28 or 48 bits - but check the FreeBSD/Alpha sources on FreeBSD.org. The DS10 was one of the systems that it supported and it should be reasonable easy to figure out from the driver. Another thought is look at Supnik's simh sources, when he might have it in there. As you say the support chipset is fairly late Si so their a high probability that it will work. If it does, I would expect that a IDE to XXX converter will work also so you could put current manufactured disks into it.
A little known fact about the Alphas. DEC (and Sun for that matter) both used a triple interface Qlogic controller (I've forgotten the model number - but both companies used but with slightly different roms. That was the default controller for the DEC written OSs. But because of NT, DEC had to support the Adaptec family also and any DS10 or equiv that shipped with NT on it had an Adaptec 2940 controller not a Qlogic in it. The boot roms will work fine if you put one into it. In fact when we did the FreeBSD port, we started with Adaptec controller because at the time *BSD did not have a Qlogic driver.
Furthuremore, it's not in any SPD that I know of, but Tru64 will recognize and boot from an Adaptec controller -- the DS10 in my office MRO did just that. IIRC: VMS will work with an Adaptec but can not boot off it.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
>> I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
>> largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
>
> "Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
>
> Page 7:
> ---
> Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
> GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
> Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
> cage.
>
> Page 12
> ---
> System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
> 218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
>
> --
> I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Oleg Safiullin wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
-Dave
"I/O slots 3 64-bit PCI slots and 1 32-bit PCI slot", so it's probably 33Mhz.
"Maximum PCI throughput 250 MB/sec"...
Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
-Dave
"I/O slots 3 64-bit PCI slots and 1 32-bit PCI slot", so it's probably 33Mhz.
On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:56, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
Oooh, many options then!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:50, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
"Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
Page 7:
---
Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
cage.
Page 12
---
System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
--
I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
"Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
Page 7:
---
Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
cage.
Page 12
---
System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
--
I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Isn't there a 137 GB limit to older IDE controllers? I don't remember much
about the various IDE restrictions, but that number pops out in my head and
it's likely that the older DS10 might not have the necessary support for
larger drives.
The DS10 won't be able to use above 137GB (although will accept any drive
above that size). 300GB Scsi work fine as well.
Jerome
Marc Chametzky wrote:
So it's basically maxed out as far as IDE goes?
Isn't there a 137 GB limit to older IDE controllers? I don't remember much about the various IDE restrictions, but that number pops out in my head and it's likely that the older DS10 might not have the necessary support for larger drives.
--Marc
I'll try to test larger disks tomorrow...
