Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
I've had a Taylor digital thermometer on my pool for over a decade. It's
been exposed to the elements of winter, spring, summer and fall for that
time. I recently purchased a new digital thermometer with a longer probe
lead because I wanted to move the location of this thermometer. I tested
both in some tap water and both are within .1 degF! So old, just as you
have stated, doesn't mean that it's de facto obsolete. If it ain't broke,
don't fix it. If it ain't broke, don't replace it.
This crap just makes me sick.
Me too.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices going to start going up?
Has anyone talked to HP as to their intentions with the hobbyist program? It would be nice to see them hand over an officially-sanctioned PAK generator to the community - do you think we will ever see that day?
Ian
On 2013-06-06, at 8:26 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 06/06/2013 11:13 AM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Hello!
Improperly briefed.
If she needed to be "briefed" on how many VMS installations there are, at a
VMS conference, she was either the wrong person to send to that conference,
or she needs to be fired.
According to those unnamed sources we all know of, the same government
offices who're using forty year old software to fly our planes,
(civilian) are still using PDP-11 based systems for those specialty
functions that were never brought to the VAX. Hardware as well as
software.
And it gets stranger, there are still some agencies who are using
S-100 based systems for those applications which actually could never
be placed on a PC or server, or otherwise.
Of course. And as well-trained consumers, we are expected to see this as a
problem.
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
This crap just makes me sick.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
---
Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=8497DCE6CEBD11E28…
On 06/06/2013 11:13 AM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Hello!
Improperly briefed.
If she needed to be "briefed" on how many VMS installations there are, at a
VMS conference, she was either the wrong person to send to that conference,
or she needs to be fired.
According to those unnamed sources we all know of, the same government
offices who're using forty year old software to fly our planes,
(civilian) are still using PDP-11 based systems for those specialty
functions that were never brought to the VAX. Hardware as well as
software.
And it gets stranger, there are still some agencies who are using
S-100 based systems for those applications which actually could never
be placed on a PC or server, or otherwise.
Of course. And as well-trained consumers, we are expected to see this as a
problem.
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
This crap just makes me sick.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 06/06/2013 08:19 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Yep.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Hello!
Improperly briefed.
According to those unnamed sources we all know of, the same government
offices who're using forty year old software to fly our planes,
(civilian) are still using PDP-11 based systems for those specialty
functions that were never brought to the VAX. Hardware as well as
software.
And it gets stranger, there are still some agencies who are using
S-100 based systems for those applications which actually could never
be placed on a PC or server, or otherwise.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 06/06/2013 08:19 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Yep.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-06-06 10:53, Mark Benson wrote:
I wouldn't hold out hope for the Hobbyist program lasting much longer
than 2016 or at best the 2020 EOL.
Afraid you might be right. However, a pipe dream would be that HP actually released all DEC-related stuff at that point. Finally shaking RSX and other PDP-11 software free would be nice.
Ultimately, we don't *need* it we just prefer working legitimately if we
can. How many people here have legit RSX-11 licenses and still use it as
Hobbyists anyway?
How about having legit license, and use it professionally? (Yes, we do exist...)
Anyway, yeah, from a pure practical point of view, the licenses are not really needed.
Johnny
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:54:13AM +0100, Mark Benson wrote:
I cant say I'm exactly shocked. HP are 8n serious trouble and
are shedding stuff to try and stop sinking.
HP came out and did a "keynote" at the yearly company get together thing
my last workplace had. It was less of a keynote and more of a plea to
not abandon them. It was actually very sad.
I wonder when Hobbyist licenses will cease issuing...
Never, I hope. :/
-brian
--
Mark Benson
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
I cant say I'm exactly shocked. HP are 8n serious trouble and are shedding stuff to try and stop sinking.
Well if they stopped trying to sell those awful "not quite a tablet and not quite a laptop computers" that seem to be advertised every advert break on British TV and maybe made printers that didn't require inks that cost roughly the same per weight as saffron, they might stand a chance.
I wonder when Hobbyist licenses will cease issuing...
Sadly it is unlikely that should that happen they'd go for the "as you can't be arsed with it, we'll take care of it" ploy.
I wouldn't hold out hope for the Hobbyist program lasting much longer than 2016 or at best the 2020 EOL.
Ultimately, we don't *need* it we just prefer working legitimately if we can. How many people here have legit RSX-11 licenses and still use it as Hobbyists anyway?
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:54:13AM +0100, Mark Benson wrote:
I cant say I'm exactly shocked. HP are 8n serious trouble and are shedding stuff to try and stop sinking.
HP came out and did a "keynote" at the yearly company get together thing
my last workplace had. It was less of a keynote and more of a plea to
not abandon them. It was actually very sad.
I wonder when Hobbyist licenses will cease issuing...
Never, I hope. :/
-brian
--
Mark Benson
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:54:13AM +0100, Mark Benson wrote:
I cant say I'm exactly shocked. HP are 8n serious trouble and are shedding stuff to try and stop sinking.
HP came out and did a "keynote" at the yearly company get together thing
my last workplace had. It was less of a keynote and more of a plea to
not abandon them. It was actually very sad.
I wonder when Hobbyist licenses will cease issuing...
Never, I hope. :/
-brian
I cant say I'm exactly shocked. HP are 8n serious trouble and are shedding stuff to try and stop sinking.
I wonder when Hobbyist licenses will cease issuing...
"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
This just came in from a friend of mine:
"Ric Lewis at HP sent out a letter basically saying VMS is dead.
Support up through 2020, but 2016 is the last sale of VMS-
supported hardware."
Now, of course, "will only be sold for 2.5 more years and will only
be supported for 6.5" doesn't exactly say "dead" to me; it says "WILL
EVENTUALLY BE dead", but still, this does kinda suck. But it's awesome
that it lasted this long. From 1978 until 2020 is a great run in this
industry. And I'll be running it, God willing, well after that. (if I'm
still breathing!)
I do hope those who have sources (or at least, source listings) will
be able
to preserve them. (hint hint)
Nudge nudge. Wink wink. Say no more.
HP: Hopelessly Pathetic.
--
Mark Benson
