On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 06/06/2013 12:33 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I
know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's
basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices
going to start going up?
I'm hoarding hardware already.
But then I've been doing that for thirty years! B-)
(I just got my first VMS-capable Itanium2 machine!)
What did you get?
An HP zx2000.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Hello!
Dave, other way around. The circumstances are similar to your many
cats. You didn't adopt them. They adopted you. So this amazing system
that arrived adopted you instead of adopting him.
One of my older systems, not the Sun unit, is in the same position.
Funny concerning O'scopes. Mine is a thirty year old Tek 2213. Right
now all I need is a backup set of probes.....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 06/06/2013 12:33 PM, lee.gleason at comcast.net wrote:
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
The two tools I use the most for electronics are a Tektronix 465 and a
Fluke 8022. Both made around 1975, both heavily used and have many many hours
on 'em, and both still work perfectly. I expect them to keep doing so for
quite a while longer. Back in the day, if you were wiling to pay extra for
quality, you really got it, not like today.
Absolutely. I strongly prefer top-end, older test equipment to newer
low-end stuff, and the prices are about the same. My lab is a sea of HP and
Tektronix logos.
For a current oscilloscope, you end up getting garbage unless you spend
$50K or more. (the HP scope I was just looking at is $300K, no typo
there...and that's what it takes to outperform the 20-year-old 54120B that I
have on the way for about $1K!)
BTW, I have a "parts unit" 465 here, it's really beat up. Its yours if you
want it, for spares for your working 465.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 06/06/2013 12:33 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I
know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's
basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices
going to start going up?
I'm hoarding hardware already.
But then I've been doing that for thirty years! B-)
(I just got my first VMS-capable Itanium2 machine!)
What did you get?
An HP zx2000.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
On 06/06/2013 11:54 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I
know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's
basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices
going to start going up?
I'm hoarding hardware already.
But then I've been doing that for thirty years! B-)
(I just got my first VMS-capable Itanium2 machine!)
What did you get?
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com>
> I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
>ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
>But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
>years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
The two tools I use the most for electronics are a Tektronix 465 and a Fluke 8022. Both made around 1975, both heavily used and have many many hours on 'em, and both still work perfectly. I expect them to keep doing so for quite a while longer. Back in the day, if you were wiling to pay extra for quality, you really got it, not like today.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason at comcast.net
On Jun 6, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices going to start going up?
Has anyone talked to HP as to their intentions with the hobbyist program? It would be nice to see them hand over an officially-sanctioned PAK generator to the community - do you think we will ever see that day?
It's certainly worth asking. I've seen some other examples where, with persistence, "crown jewels" were peeled loose. An example that comes to mind is CDC mainframe software, and in fact the initial loosening happened when the product was still (slightly) alive. Persistence and diplomacy is needed for this -- remember that there isn't really anything in it for the owner company, so you have to understand that such releases are a gesture of good will (perhaps with some modest PR benefits) on their part. Those of you who have the interest and the diplomatic skill may want to start working on this.
paul
On 06/06/2013 11:54 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I
know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's
basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices
going to start going up?
I'm hoarding hardware already.
But then I've been doing that for thirty years! B-)
(I just got my first VMS-capable Itanium2 machine!)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
I've had a Taylor digital thermometer on my pool for over a decade. It's
been exposed to the elements of winter, spring, summer and fall for that
time. I recently purchased a new digital thermometer with a longer probe
lead because I wanted to move the location of this thermometer. I tested
both in some tap water and both are within .1 degF! So old, just as you
have stated, doesn't mean that it's de facto obsolete. If it ain't broke,
don't fix it. If it ain't broke, don't replace it.
This crap just makes me sick.
Me too.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Now that HP have effectively discontinued VMS and associated hardware (I know - a few years out, but once you announce a sunset date, it's basically over) are we going to see hoarding of harware? Are Ebay prices going to start going up?
Has anyone talked to HP as to their intentions with the hobbyist program? It would be nice to see them hand over an officially-sanctioned PAK generator to the community - do you think we will ever see that day?
Ian
On 2013-06-06, at 8:26 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 06/06/2013 11:13 AM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Hello!
Improperly briefed.
If she needed to be "briefed" on how many VMS installations there are, at a
VMS conference, she was either the wrong person to send to that conference,
or she needs to be fired.
According to those unnamed sources we all know of, the same government
offices who're using forty year old software to fly our planes,
(civilian) are still using PDP-11 based systems for those specialty
functions that were never brought to the VAX. Hardware as well as
software.
And it gets stranger, there are still some agencies who are using
S-100 based systems for those applications which actually could never
be placed on a PC or server, or otherwise.
Of course. And as well-trained consumers, we are expected to see this as a
problem.
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
This crap just makes me sick.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
---
Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=8497DCE6CEBD11E28…
On 06/06/2013 11:13 AM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Damn!
I work in federal govt and we have numerous (3 digits) VMS hosts world-wide t=
hat never gave us any trouble (especially compared to windoze).=20
Really? According to HP's Lorraine Bartlett VP BCS Marketing & Strategy who
gave a keynote at the recent OpenVMS Bootcamp in mid-March, there were less
than 200 VMS customers and none were in Gov't.
So is she clueless, or is she a liar? Resellers were still offering big
bucks for VAX-7800 CPU modules as recently as ~2 years ago, specifically for
the Pentagon. And those are VAXen, for chrissakes!
I, and those in attendance, knew better.
Hello!
Improperly briefed.
If she needed to be "briefed" on how many VMS installations there are, at a
VMS conference, she was either the wrong person to send to that conference,
or she needs to be fired.
According to those unnamed sources we all know of, the same government
offices who're using forty year old software to fly our planes,
(civilian) are still using PDP-11 based systems for those specialty
functions that were never brought to the VAX. Hardware as well as
software.
And it gets stranger, there are still some agencies who are using
S-100 based systems for those applications which actually could never
be placed on a PC or server, or otherwise.
Of course. And as well-trained consumers, we are expected to see this as a
problem.
I still use a handheld digital multimeter (Fluke 77) that I got 22 years
ago. It still works great, holds its calibration, and does its job well.
But if I were a proper American, I should've thrown it in the trash 15-17
years ago and purchased a new one, for no valid reason.
This crap just makes me sick.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
