I know there are a lot of ex-DEC people here, so I thought I'd ask -
Another HECnet user kindly gave me a copy of the RSX AME kit for VMS, v2.5.
AFAIK that's the latest version, from around 1990, and I decided to install
it on LEGATO (a simh VAX with OVMS 7.3). I dutifully read the release notes
and followed all the directions about account quotas, global pages, etc.
The installation went off without a hitch - no errors, and the IVP runs
successfully. Great!
The PDP-11 utilities work fine by themselves - MAC, TKB, etc. I can
assemble and link a program with no problem.
BUT, the MCR CLI doesn't work. Logging in or spawning a process with
/CLI=MCR fails with
%MCR-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image MBX
-CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found
LEGATO$DUA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][001054]MBX.EXE;
Poking around a bit, I find that the installation created a file called
SYS$MANAGER:RSX$MCR_COMMANDS.CLD. (.CLD is the extension for VMS Command
Definition files, which extend the DCL parse tables with new commands). And
this file conveniently defines, along with several other things, an MBX
command. Oddly there seems to be no mention of this file in the release
notes and no reference to it in the KITINSTAL, but fine - maybe I'm supposed
to use it.
So, SET COMMAND SYS$MANAGER:RSX$MCR_COMMANDS and the "$MBX" gives
%DCL-E-INVROUT, invalid routine specified in command tables -
check .CLD file
I'm starting to think that the RSX AME, or at least the MCR CLI, doesn't
work on VMS7.3. Can anybody shed any more light on this?
Bob
>From owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Sat Mar 7 17:55:30 2020
>As far as I am aware, IAS was not included in the sale of PDP-11
>software from DEC to Mentec.
That was my understanding too. I remember seeing it on a DEC price
list after the Mentec transfer, as a class L license only (Q-bus, no
Unibus), and for a crazy high price ($20K-$30K IIRC). Which kind of
lent value to the rumor I'd heard at the time: that DEC withheld IAS
from Mentec because there was some particular high-value customer still
buying it, and DEC wasn't yet tired of taking their money. The single
choice for the license made it sound like there was only one config
still in play (i.e. whatever that customer used).
>So I guess IAS is still fully under HPE control. But good luck finding
>anyone in there who even knows about it...
Yeah ...
John Wilson
D Bit
> > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
> > Sent: 07 March 2020 11:59
> > On 2020-03-07 08:12, Rob Jarratt wrote:
> > > Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak
for
> > > saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program,
> > > presumably because they no longer support VMS. I think they should
> > > officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
> > > non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn't help new hobbyists).
I also thought that as well. "we are shutting down - here's the keys".
It would have been a nice gesture.
It's not impossible that this could change.
> > Well, it obviously also would not help VSI, who now "owns" VMS, if
they were to
> > release the PAK tool...
This will never happen. I too worry that VSI will see hobbyists as a
potential source of income. While in principal I don't have a problem
with this concept, if they start charging they need to start offering
something more. I first got into the DEC hobbyist scene back in 2009 -
when we had to physically order CD's from Montagar. 11 years later and
it's still the same code with yearly license keys being the only
difference. The whole concept of the hobbyist program was to provide
access to legacy code for legacy machines at no cost with no impact to
DEC/COMPAQ/HPE.
> > The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of licenses for
VAX.
> > VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX
side of things,
> > which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the cold no
matter what
> > VSI does.
As has already been mentioned on the list - don't be concerned about
this. If it comes to Christmas 2021 and neither the HPE or VSI people
have come up with something that appeals to hobbyists, I guarantee you
that Santa will leave you a nice PAK under the tree.
Cheers, Wiz!!
I had a shower thought that I'd like to run down in order to better understand how DECnet routing works. Ok, I wasn't actually in the shower.
Let's say that my local DECnet is successfully hooked in to HECnet. For the sake of discussion, imagine I'm using PyDECnet to connect to my upstream node, and I don't have my own area number. That means that my PyDECnet node would be a level 1 router, right?
Now, imagine that I inadvertently bring up a system on my local ethernet with an uncoordinated DECnet node ID. Perhaps I booted some random RL02 pack in my VAX without remembering to unplug the ethernet cable, or booted a random disk image in SIMH with it connected to the TAP device. Just to make things exciting, let's say that the system comes up with a node ID that properly exists elsewhere in HECnet.
If the node ID happens to be in the same area that I'm properly in, does the adjacency detection find it and break things? What if it comes up with a node ID in a different area? Just how much trouble would this cause?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
Does anybody know if there's a PDP-11 MACRO-11 cross assembler for VMS?
I don't want to set up a whole PDP-11 simulation just to assemble one file J
Bob
Greetings all! I have been a lurker in this group for years but have never
started a HECNet implementation of my own. My experience with DEC machines
is only through Simh and I would like to expand my horizons with probably
the MicroVAX 3900 simulator. There are a few of challenges with this. 1. My
knowledge of DCL is quite rudimentary. 2. My networking experience is
strictly TCP/IP. 3. I have seen how much enjoyment you all have with this
but I am still not sure what to do with HECNet. Nevertheless, I would love
to get involved but I will probably need some hand holding and it would be
understandable that no one has time to help me. So I was wondering if there
was any beginners guide to DECNet I could read or if anyone would be
interested in helping a total beginner. I have 3 computers all running
Linux: an older desktop, a laptop which I usually use on wifi so that
probably isn't a good choice and a Raspberry Pi 4. Again any help and/or
advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Ray
> DECnet over "dialup"
If the PyDecnet thing is the TCP listener and ignores the
source IP address and then just verifies it's a DECnet
packet with the right area/node id (somekind of new filter
function), I think we have enough security to get started.
> Ham radio...
You can put a DECnet packet in a KISS frame and you have
a PTP link with callsign identifications if you want. A
"grapes wd4dsy modem" would make 56Kbit or 112Kbit on
432 or 1296.
-P
NIA20 will be included along with an IP capable IMP interface.
On Feb 26, 2020 11:33 AM, Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
>Rich Cornwell's simh KL10 is in the final stages of prep. You should see something
>in the next few weeks.
Really? I had no idea... Sounds like I am totally wrong about simh never emulating a KL.
Will it also emulate a DTE so you can marry it to one or more PDP-11 simhs? I know there was some talk of doing that for the PDP-15/76.
Bob
What are the alternatives for bridging DECnet systems across the Internet
that don't require any special hardware and can be self hosted on
OpenVMS/VAX?
I'm aware of Paul's Python router, but I didn't think it ran on a VAX. Am
I wrong about that? Is there a Python for OpenVMS/VAX? I believe there's a
port for AXP but I didn't know about one for VAX.
And I saw Rob mentioned his user mode DECnet router. Same questions -
what environment does that require? And I saw mention it being both
Multinet and simh DDCMp compatible - will it talk to a simh KS10/TOPS10/DMR
?
Bob
