7 Mar
2020
7 Mar
'20
6:13 a.m.
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I've hunted around all the various
Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can't find any additional
information.
I've already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
From: OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
Cc: OpenVMS Customer Lab
Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
7 Mar
7 Mar
8:12 a.m.
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak for saying
that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program, presumably because
they no longer support VMS. I think they should officially release the PAK
tool, or allow hobbyists to request non-expiring licenses (although that
wouldn't help new hobbyists).
Regards
Rob
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
David Moylan
Sent: 07 March 2020 05:14
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I've hunted around all the various Hobbyist
locations and licensing pages and can't find any additional information.
I've already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further knowledge on
this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
From: OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
Cc: OpenVMS Customer Lab
Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
12:58 p.m.
On 2020-03-07 08:12, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just
corporate speak for
saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program, presumably
because they no longer support VMS. I think they should officially
release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request non-expiring
licenses (although that wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
Well, it obviously also would not help VSI, who now "owns" VMS, if they
were to release the PAK tool...
In a sense, a totally expected development. HPE have for a long time
said they are going to get out of VMS. Hobbyist was not expected to fare
any different. It is now truly up to VSI to decide what happens next.
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side of
things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the cold
no matter what VSI does.
Johnny
Regards
Rob
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On Behalf
Of *David Moylan
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the various
Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can?t find any additional
information.
I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
*From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
*Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
*Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
1:34 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 07 March 2020 11:59
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
On 2020-03-07 08:12, Rob Jarratt wrote:
were to
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just
corporate speak for
saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program,
presumably because they no longer support VMS. I think they should
officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn't help new hobbyists).
Well, it obviously also would not help VSI, who now "owns" VMS, if they
release the PAK tool...
Yes, I thought about that, but perhaps VSI could create a licensing
mechanism for Intel that isn't PAK? Not sure how hard that would be though.
I don't recall if they intend to support anything other than Intel though.
In a sense, a totally expected development. HPE have for a long time said
they
are going to get out of VMS. Hobbyist was not expected
to fare any
different. It
is now truly up to VSI to decide what happens next.
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side of
things,
which could mean that VAX people might be left out in
the cold no matter
what
VSI does.
Johnny
Regards
Rob
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On
Behalf Of *David Moylan
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I've hunted around all the various
Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can't find any additional
information.
I've already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
*From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
*Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
*Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 
5:50 p.m.
On 3/7/20 6:58 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of
licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side of
things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the cold
no matter what VSI does.
Many people have ways of generating working PAKs. Those people,
whomever they happen to be, should try very hard to avoid impacting
VSI's business in any way.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
7:10 p.m.
On Saturday, March 7, 2020 at 8:50 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 6:58 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This raises an interesting question in my mind:
Does VSI view users/hobbyists using simulated VAXes or real legacy
hardware as a plus or minus to their business? I sure hope it is a plus.
- Mark
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question
of licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side
of things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the
cold no matter what VSI does.
Many people have ways of generating working PAKs. Those people,
whomever they happen to be, should try very hard to avoid impacting VSI's
business in any way.
7:22 p.m.
On 3/7/20 1:10 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
This raises an interesting question in my mind:
Does VSI view users/hobbyists using simulated VAXes or real legacy
hardware as a plus or minus to their business? I sure hope it is a plus.
You know, come to think of it, I hope it's a plus too. I hadn't
thought about that.
Suitly companies usually don't understand that concept, but they don't
seem terribly suitly to me.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of
licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side
of things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the
cold no matter what VSI does.
Many people have ways of generating working PAKs. Those people,
whomever they happen to be, should try very hard to avoid impacting VSI's
business in any way. 
7:33 p.m.
On Mar 7, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire
at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:10 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
I just sent a message off to someone that should be able to answer such things. This
person is in a good place to know, and has always been very friendly to us.
Zane
This raises an interesting question in my mind:
Does VSI view users/hobbyists using simulated VAXes or real legacy
hardware as a plus or minus to their business? I sure hope it is a plus.
You know, come to think of it, I hope it's a plus too. I hadn't
thought about that.
Suitly companies usually don't understand that concept, but they don't
seem terribly suitly to me.
-Dave 
7:45 p.m.
An interesting side question is this: what legacy DEC oses does HPE still
own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to those?
Ray
On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 1:33 PM Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com> wrote:
On Mar 7, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Dave McGuire
<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:10 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:
> This raises an interesting question in my mind:
>
> Does VSI view users/hobbyists using simulated VAXes or real legacy
> hardware as a plus or minus to their business? I sure hope it is a
plus.
You know, come to think of it, I hope it's a plus too. I hadn't
thought about that.
Suitly companies usually don't understand that concept, but they don't
seem terribly suitly to me.
-Dave
I just sent a message off to someone that should be able to answer such
things. This person is in a good place to know, and has always been very
friendly to us.
Zane
7:51 p.m.
On 3/7/20 1:45 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
An interesting side question is this: what legacy DEC
oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to those??
I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll. I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
7:55 p.m.
On 2020-03-07 19:51, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:45 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
The situation is murky. Yes, XX2247 "owns" most PDP-11 OS and software.
However, there are clauses in the contracts that give HP (HPE?) control
over things still... So at the moment, there is not much of anything
XX2247 can do.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
An interesting side question is this: what legacy
DEC oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to those?
I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll. I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
7:57 p.m.
On 3/7/20 1:55 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The situation is murky. Yes, XX2247 "owns" most PDP-11 OS and software.
However, there are clauses in the contracts that give HP (HPE?) control
over things still... So at the moment, there is not much of anything
XX2247 can do.
Oh really? Wow.
Presumably this is to protect the interests of organizations still
running PDP-11s in production, but I'd have thought that they were
essentially self-supporting at this point. I only know of one
personally (locally), and they are entirely self-supporting.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
An interesting side question is this: what legacy DEC
oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to
those?
?? I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll.? I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
11:54 p.m.
On 2020-03-07 19:57, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:55 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The situation is murky. Yes, XX2247 "owns" most PDP-11 OS and software.
However, there are clauses in the contracts that give HP (HPE?) control
over things still... So at the moment, there is not much of anything
XX2247 can do.
Oh really? Wow.
Presumably this is to protect the interests of organizations still
running PDP-11s in production, but I'd have thought that they were
essentially self-supporting at this point. I only know of one
personally (locally), and they are entirely self-supporting.
I don't know exactly what they might be protecting. This was part of the
original contract between Mentec and DEC. It's just still in place,
since noone have been able to change it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
An interesting side question is this: what legacy DEC
oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to
those?
?? I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll.? I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything. 
8:01 p.m.
Does that include IAS - - the one thing I really want on the PiDP11...
Lots of my local newspapers ran it... Especially for classified advertising.
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:55
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
On 2020-03-07 19:51, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:45 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
The situation is murky. Yes, XX2247 "owns" most PDP-11 OS and software.
However, there are clauses in the contracts that give HP (HPE?) control
over things still... So at the moment, there is not much of anything
XX2247 can do.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
An interesting side question is this: what legacy
DEC oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to those?
I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll. I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
11:55 p.m.
On 2020-03-07 20:01, William Pechter wrote:
Does that include IAS - - the one thing I really want
on the PiDP11...
Lots of my local newspapers ran it... Especially for classified
advertising.
As far as I am aware, IAS was not included in the sale of PDP-11
software from DEC to Mentec.
So I guess IAS is still fully under HPE control. But good luck finding
anyone in there who even knows about it...
Johnny
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com <mailto:pechter at gmail.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:55
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
On 2020-03-07 19:51, Dave McGuire wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 3/7/20 1:45 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
> An interesting side question is this: what legacy DEC oses does HPE
> still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to
those?
??? I believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll.? I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
The situation is murky. Yes, XX2247 "owns" most PDP-11 OS and software.
However, there are clauses in the contracts that give HP (HPE?) control
over things still... So at the moment, there is not much of anything
XX2247 can do.
?? Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist????????????????? || "I'm on a bus
?????????????????????????????????? ||? on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>???????????? ||? Reading
murder books
pdp is alive!???????????????????? ||? tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
8 Mar
8 Mar
12:49 a.m.
On Mar 7, 2020, at 2:55 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2020-03-07 20:01, William Pechter wrote:
Mentec only had RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E. *UNFORTUNATELY* they didn?t have
full control, or if they did, they weren?t 100%. At the last minute, they decided they?d
better run the Hobbyist License past HP. It was HP that prevented us from getting it.
They wanted serious $$$ to have their Lawyers review the PDP-11 Hobbyist License, and
there was no way to fund that. At the time, I had the impression they thought that they?d
have business later on that they?d be able to piggyback this on. Obviously that didn?t
happen, and then Mentec vanished.
Zane
Does that include IAS - - the one thing I really
want on the PiDP11...
Lots of my local newspapers ran it... Especially for classified advertising.
As far as I am aware, IAS was not included in the sale of PDP-11 software from DEC to
Mentec.
So I guess IAS is still fully under HPE control. But good luck finding anyone in there
who even knows about it... 
7 Mar
7 Mar
8:02 p.m.
Back before Digital was bought (perhaps by Compaq before HP swallowed
them both), Bob Supnik posted a free, personal use, non-commercial
license for the 36 bit line.? However, this had to be filled out and
sent to Digital's Corporate Licensing Office. As this was in 1996, it's
unclear who would be accepting delivery now...
However, there was some speculation about the licensing by some
parties.? Tops-20 was developed directly from TENEX at DEC by some of
the same employees who had developed TENEX at BBN.? However, this was
done in part with ARPA funding and licensing for TENEX was far
different.? Basically anybody could use it.? Certain KL replacement
products (viz., FOONLY) used TENEX.
XKL (or Cisco) did pay Digital a certain amount of money for use of the
TCP/IP implementation, but I don't know what rights XKL holds.? The code
bases have diverged somewhat (TOAD Tops-20 supports a 30 bit virtual
address space vs. the KL B's 23).
On 3/7/20 1:51 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:45 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
An interesting side question is this: what legacy
DEC oses does HPE
still own the rights to and what if anything is going to happen to those?
I
believe most (all?) of the PDP-11 OSs are, or at least were a few
years ago, owned by David Carroll. I don't know what he plans to do
with it all, if anything.
-Dave
7:29 p.m.
Yes, there are a number of ways to get around a license check for just
about anything if you try long enough and find the points to stub out
the checks.? This is probably not a great idea.? Just because you've
stubbed out a call for local validation doesn't mean you've gotten
everything, such as reporting (covert or not) to a central site.? At a
minimum, you'd probably be put on the spot to pony up.
I'm not surprised if VSI wouldn't attempt to extract some amount of
money from the older licenses.? They are currently in the middle of a
port to X86_64 and, speaking from experience, ports between
architectures can wind up taking an unexpected amount of time.? Once
booting on the x86_64 platform (which they have done), they will likely
need to expend resources addressing which device drivers to write or
port.? Such human resources are expensive and during all these time, the
x86_64 product isn't generating any revenue.
That can put a young company into a cash crunch.? In other words, all
R&D and no sales = chapter 11.? Once the port is fully operational, one
assumes that a certain amount of expenditure will need to be done to
enter new markets, perhaps regain lost customers.? That could be tough.?
Linux is increasingly difficult to compete against, Windows (data center
addition) shows consistent improvement and well, IBM.? I do think that
VMS has some desirable market differentiators in the data center;
besides Tops-10, Tops-20 and z/OS, it is one of the few operating
systems I know of with an actual functional unified operator interface,
a working batch system and tape management.
But either way, I wouldn't bet against it being a slog for VSI for some
time.? With regard to the licenses themselves, I think the following
language from the VSI website appears relevant:
October 24, 2019 - As part of its exiting the OpenVMS market,
Hewlett Packard Enterprises (HPE) has sold the rights to all its
support contract renewals to VMS Software, Inc. (VSI). Both HPE
OpenVMS (V8.4 and /*earlier*/) and VSI OpenVMS (V8.4-1h1 and higher)
contract renewals were sold to VSI.? When combined with news earlier
this year that HPE had stopped selling all new VSI upgraded license
products and new VSI support contracts, this means that HPE has
divested the controlling rights of the OpenVMS operating system
solely to VSI.
I think the word 'earlier' may be operative, perhaps meaning 'all
licenses, now, in the past and forever'.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/7/20 11:50 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Many people have ways of generating working PAKs. Those people,
whomever they happen to be, should try very hard to avoid impacting
VSI's business in any way.
-Dave
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On 3/7/20 6:58 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>
> The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of licenses for VAX.
> VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side of
> things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the cold
> no matter what VSI does.
7:52 p.m.
On 3/7/20 1:29 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
Yes, there are a number of ways to get around a
license check for just
about anything if you try long enough and find the points to stub out
the checks.? This is probably not a great idea.? Just because you've
stubbed out a call for local validation doesn't mean you've gotten
everything, such as reporting (covert or not) to a central site.? At a
minimum, you'd probably be put on the spot to pony up.
I didn't mention hacking VMS, I mentioned generating license PAKs.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:04 p.m.
I guess I must be confused and have been unclear.? If the PAK isn't VSI
generated, isn't that the same thing?? I had been thinking reverse
engineering the PAK, but didn't state that as Ihad been musing that
stubs could be easier.
On 3/7/20 1:52 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 1:29 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
Yes, there are a number of ways to get around a
license check for just
about anything if you try long enough and find the points to stub out
the checks.? This is probably not a great idea.? Just because you've
stubbed out a call for local validation doesn't mean you've gotten
everything, such as reporting (covert or not) to a central site.? At a
minimum, you'd probably be put on the spot to pony up.
I didn't mention
hacking VMS, I mentioned generating license PAKs.
-Dave
8:07 p.m.
On 3/7/20 2:04 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
I guess I must be confused and have been unclear.? If
the PAK isn't VSI
generated, isn't that the same thing?
Semantics..
I had been thinking reverse
engineering the PAK, but didn't state that as Ihad been musing that
stubs could be easier.
But reverse-engineering the PAKs has already been done, decades ago.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:19 p.m.
OK, now I've got it.? I believe this reverse-engineering may have also
happened for TSU's on the 36 bit line.? It is now specifically outlawed
by the Digital Millennium Act, but that hackery undoubtedly predated
it.? One assumes that it was contractually precluded.
But I still find this particular financial speculation compelling; cash
flow in new (younger than a decade) small companies can be a significant
driver for certain kinds of decisions unless they are prodigiously
funded (perhaps by VC). OpenVMS x86_64 may or may not generate a certain
amount of revenue; there is clearly risk there.? However, right now,
it's not generating _anything_, is costing resources and hhas yet to be
delivered.
Hence it follows that a bean counter might be looking around for, you
know, beans...? That could also drive actions on discovery of non-VSI
issued PAK's.? I do not have an informed opinion on PAK tracking nor VSI
funding, VC or otherwise.
On 3/7/20 2:07 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 3/7/20 2:04 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
I guess I must be confused and have been
unclear.? If the PAK isn't VSI
generated, isn't that the same thing?
Semantics..
I had been thinking reverse
engineering the PAK, but didn't state that as Ihad been musing that
stubs could be easier.
But reverse-engineering the PAKs has already been done,
decades ago.
-Dave
10 Mar
10 Mar
9:59 p.m.
Part of this hobby is keeping old hardware, OS's and software running. It's
sometimes hard. This is just one more obstacle of many. It's what
separates the serious collectors from the casual. Like life, OS's find a
way to survive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Dave McGuire
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 8:50 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
On 3/7/20 6:58 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The one, potentially scary thing, is the question of
licenses for VAX.
VSI didn't, as far as I can remember, formally take over the VAX side
of things, which could mean that VAX people might be left out in the
cold no matter what VSI does.
Many people have ways of generating working PAKs. Those people, whomever
they happen to be, should try very hard to avoid impacting VSI's business in
any way.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
7 Mar
7 Mar
7:50 p.m.
I have received t too. They say ifyou want long term licenses, buy it!
dig out the coins.
On 3/7/2020 2:12 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak for
saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program,
presumably because they no longer support VMS. I think they should
officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
Regards
Rob
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On
Behalf Of *David Moylan
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the various
Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can?t find any additional
information.
I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
*From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
*Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
*Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
7:58 p.m.
The cost of a VMS Vax license would probably be more than a license for later hardware and
the hardware.
There's been no bug fixes to the last Vax versions and if you get the Vax license - -
if offered - - the ability to keep the HW running gets harder yearly.
A multi thousand dollar/yr license to run on Simh would suck. $50/Yr might be doable for
a hobby. Perhaps someone could propose something so VSI could offset costs.
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cunningham <bill.cu at suddenlink.net>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:50
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
I have received t too. They say ifyou want long term licenses, buy it!
dig out the coins.
On 3/7/2020 2:12 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak for
saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program,
presumably because they no longer support VMS. I think they should
officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
Regards
Rob
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On
Behalf Of *David Moylan
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the various
Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can?t find any additional
information.
I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
*From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
*Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
*Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
8:26 p.m.
It sounds like? a real shame. A lot of programmers have developed some
much for openvms, and now they are just going to stop it. To bring VMS
up to date so to speak; that would be "artistic" ownership under federal
law. A wall owner was just sued over tearing down his wall that graffiti
artists drew on. It's not all just HP here.
On 3/7/2020 1:58 PM, William Pechter wrote:
The cost of a VMS Vax license would probably be more
than a license
for later hardware and the hardware.
There's been no bug fixes to the last Vax versions and if you get the
Vax license - - if offered - - the ability to keep the HW running gets
harder yearly.
A multi thousand dollar/yr license to run on? Simh would suck. $50/Yr
might be doable for a hobby.? Perhaps someone could propose something
so VSI could offset costs.
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com <mailto:pechter at gmail.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cunningham <bill.cu at suddenlink.net>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:50
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
I have received t too. They say ifyou want long term licenses, buy it!
dig out the coins.
On 3/7/2020 2:12 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>
> Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak for
> saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing program,
> presumably because they no longer support VMS. I think they should
> officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
> non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
> *From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On
> Behalf Of *David Moylan
> *Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
> *To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> *Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the various
> Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can?t find any additional
> information.
>
> I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
> licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
>
> Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further
> knowledge on this?
>
> I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
> comp.os.vms.
>
> Cheers, Wiz!!
>
> *From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
> *Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
> *Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
>
> Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
>
> This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
> license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
>
> If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
> earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
>
> Thank you.
>
> HPE OpenVMS team
>
8:29 p.m.
I wonder how long it?ll be before VSI goes the way of SCO and eventually owned mostly by
lawyers who persuaded the executives that hounding the hobbyists was the most profitable
thing to do?.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Bill
Cunningham
Sent: 07 March 2020 19:27
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
It sounds like a real shame. A lot of programmers have developed some much for openvms,
and now they are just going to stop it. To bring VMS up to date so to speak; that would be
"artistic" ownership under federal law. A wall owner was just sued over tearing
down his wall that graffiti artists drew on. It's not all just HP here.
On 3/7/2020 1:58 PM, William Pechter wrote:
The cost of a VMS Vax license would probably be more than a license for later hardware and
the hardware.
There's been no bug fixes to the last Vax versions and if you get the Vax license - -
if offered - - the ability to keep the HW running gets harder yearly.
A multi thousand dollar/yr license to run on Simh would suck. $50/Yr might be doable for
a hobby. Perhaps someone could propose something so VSI could offset costs.
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com<mailto:pechter at gmail.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cunningham <bill.cu at suddenlink.net><mailto:bill.cu at
suddenlink.net>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:50
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
I have received t too. They say ifyou want long term licenses, buy it! dig out the coins.
On 3/7/2020 2:12 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate speak for saying that they are
closing the hobbyist licensing program, presumably because they no longer support VMS. I
think they should officially release the PAK tool, or allow hobbyists to request
non-expiring licenses (although that wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
Regards
Rob
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE><mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of David Moylan
Sent: 07 March 2020 05:14
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Subject: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the various Hobbyist locations and
licensing pages and can?t find any additional information.
I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal licensing will be. I
have no further information at this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
From: OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
Cc: OpenVMS Customer Lab
Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program in
alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the earliest through the
usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
8:37 p.m.
SCO might be another example of what I was talking about.? They were
getting blown out of the water by Linux and other vendors and were
behind in functionality in a number of areas.? So maybe they went after
the big money (I.E., IBM) to address the cash crunch so they could fund
resources to bring the product up to date.
Lawyers do what lawyers do, which typically isn't coding.? SCO needed
both cash and coding, but I think they picked the wrong target.? IBM's
lawyers are, well, legendary.
On 3/7/20 2:29 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
I wonder how long it?ll be before VSI goes the way of SCO and
eventually owned mostly by lawyers who persuaded the executives that
hounding the hobbyists was the most profitable thing to do?.
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
*On Behalf Of *Bill Cunningham
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 19:27
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
It sounds like? a real shame. A lot of programmers have developed some
much for openvms, and now they are just going to stop it. To bring VMS
up to date so to speak; that would be "artistic" ownership under
federal law. A wall owner was just sued over tearing down his wall
that graffiti artists drew on. It's not all just HP here.
On 3/7/2020 1:58 PM, William Pechter wrote:
The cost of a VMS Vax license would probably be more than a
license for later hardware and the hardware.
There's been no bug fixes to the last Vax versions and if you get
the Vax license - - if offered - - the ability to keep the HW
running gets harder yearly.
A multi thousand dollar/yr license to run on? Simh would suck.?
$50/Yr might be doable for a hobby.? Perhaps someone could propose
something so VSI could offset costs.
Bill
Sent from pechter at gmail.com <mailto:pechter at gmail.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cunningham <bill.cu at suddenlink.net>
<mailto:bill.cu at suddenlink.net>
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Sent: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 13:50
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
I have received t too. They say ifyou want long term licenses, buy
it! dig out the coins.
On 3/7/2020 2:12 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Yes, I have received it too. I think this is just corporate
speak for saying that they are closing the hobbyist licensing
program, presumably because they no longer support VMS. I
think they should officially release the PAK tool, or allow
hobbyists to request non-expiring licenses (although that
wouldn?t help new hobbyists).
Regards
Rob
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On Behalf Of *David Moylan
*Sent:* 07 March 2020 05:14
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
*Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is
closing
Hi all,
Just received the e-mail below. I?ve hunted around all the
various Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can?t find
any additional information.
I?ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist
renewal licensing will be. I have no further information at
this stage.
Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any
further knowledge on this?
I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message
on comp.os.vms.
Cheers, Wiz!!
*From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomerlab at hpe.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
*Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
*Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS
Hobbyist license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS
support roadmap.
If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us
at the earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
Thank you.
HPE OpenVMS team
8:30 p.m.
On 3/7/20 2:26 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
It sounds like? a real shame. A lot of programmers
have developed some
much for openvms, and now they are just going to stop it.
This does not at all mean that VMS is going to just up and disappear.
That's ludicrous.
To bring VMS up to date so to speak; that would be
"artistic" ownership under federal
law. A wall owner was just sued over tearing down his wall that graffiti
artists drew on. It's not all just HP here.
You're talking about the American legal system, in which the victor is
the one who can hire more lawyers. Do you think you can hire more
lawyers than HP?
Just keep running your machines and be happy. There is no reason to
get all excited about this.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:37 p.m.
On 3/7/2020 2:30 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
:)
On 3/7/20 2:26 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
??? I hope not. I have all kinds of "this n
that's" that go with
openVMS. Open enough for those that have the money I guess.
It sounds like? a real shame. A lot of
programmers have developed some
much for openvms, and now they are just going to stop it.
This does not at all
mean that VMS is going to just up and disappear.
That's ludicrous. To bring VMS
up to date so to speak; that would be "artistic" ownership under federal
law. A wall owner was just sued over tearing down his wall that graffiti
artists drew on. It's not all just HP here.
You're talking about the
American legal system, in which the victor is
the one who can hire more lawyers. Do you think you can hire more
lawyers than HP?
Just keep running your machines and be happy. There is no reason to
get all excited about this. -Dave
9 Mar
9 Mar
1:39 p.m.
On Sat, 7 Mar 2020, William Pechter wrote:
A multi thousand dollar/yr license to run on? Simh
would suck.? $50/Yr might
be doable for a hobby.? Perhaps someone could propose something so VSI could
offset costs.
Was not disappointed this morning when I intended to post about the email
I received from HP over the weekend, and found that someone already had.
:)
I for one would be OK with a nominal $50 USD/year "fee" for
administration/issuing of hobbyist licenses for any and all equipment that
a hobbyist may have. Not $50 per license per year though ...
Here's hoping VSI has something good up their sleeve (I have not read all
of the messages yet in my inbox ....). Right, wrong, or indifferent, the
alternative will be *ahem* ... "tools". Not that I want to go that
route, but if there is no alternative and I want to keep my real/emulated
hardware "up" and not just sell it all .... I'll have no choice.
Fred
1531
days inactive
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days old
30 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
bill.cu＠suddenlink.net -
bqt＠softjar.se -
davecoo＠marmotking.com -
djm＠wiz.net.au -
fcoffey＠misernet.net -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
Keith.Halewood＠pitbulluk.org -
Mark＠infocomm.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pechter＠gmail.com -
raywjewhurst＠gmail.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
tommytimesharing＠gmail.com