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Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by christine.caulfield＠googlemail.com

Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Correct. However, DDCMP, as well as tunneling of it, is something you can probably accomplish using any system you can find. All you need is a plain serial port capable of running at rather slow speeds (I can't find a way of going above 9600 bps using RSX atleast, even if the hardware supports that.) Tunneling ethernet is far more complicated. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) My Linux nodes seem to talk with your RSX machines quite happily ... well, mostly ... -- Chrissie

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Zane H. Healy skrev: At 12:03 AM +0200 6/25/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to connect to my RSX-11M 4.2 system back nearly 10 years ago using DECnet/Linux. As I recall it didn't work the best, but at least I was able to log in and do some stuff. 10 years ago? Wow. I didn't even know DECnet/Linux existed, much less worked, back in the 90s. But anyway, I tried it maybe five years ago, and was not encouraged. It barely worked for a short period before hanging, each time I tried it. But that's just what I can recollect now, and as I said, this was q number of years ago. Maybe things are better today. Anyone with a Linux machine on HECnet who cares to try doing a set host to MIM? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

At 12:03 AM +0200 6/25/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to connect to my RSX-11M 4.2 system back nearly 10 years ago using DECnet/Linux. As I recall it didn't work the best, but at least I was able to log in and do some stuff. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. Johnny

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Bob

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Correct. However, DDCMP, as well as tunneling of it, is something you can probably accomplish using any system you can find. All you need is a plain serial port capable of running at rather slow speeds (I can't find a way of going above 9600 bps using RSX atleast, even if the hardware supports that.) Tunneling ethernet is far more complicated. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Johnny

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

At 7:23 PM +0200 6/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: NetBSD is "preferred" by me personally, but the bridge program is mostly running on Linux boxes I think. :-) I have it running on both Linux and NetBSD myself, and others have run it on OpenBSD, and I think FreeBSD as well. It can probably be made to run on I'm running on OpenBSD. I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. I could probably set something like that up again, if needed. Don't know if anything but RSX and VMS supported DECnet over asynch serial lines, though. According to Megan DECnet for RT-11 only runs over serial lines, of course as no one has been able to come up with a copy... I've also talking a bit with John Wilson (who writes E11) about possibly adding the bridging code directly in E11, so that you'd have an ethernet interface which would go directly out on the net. That's not working yet, but if people are interested, I'm sure John could cook that up fast enough. That would likely be of interest to several people, I can't help but think it would at least increase the number part time nodes on HECnet. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Bob

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: You also need to figure out where to connect to, "physically". That is, which remote machine will you talk to, and using which protocol. There are several options. Most people either use a VMS machine as a router, and go through an IP-tunneled connection handled by VMS, or they use my bridge program, which acts just like any bridge. Right - you either need a VAX or Alpha running OpenVMS and the Multinet TCP/IP package (both of which have free hobbyist licenses), OR you need a Unix host running Johnny's bridge program. I believe in the latter case NetBSD is preferred, but Johnny can correct me if that's wrong. NetBSD is "preferred" by me personally, but the bridge program is mostly running on Linux boxes I think. :-) I have it running on both Linux and NetBSD myself, and others have run it on OpenBSD, and I think FreeBSD as well. It can probably be made to run on another bunch of Unix-like systems with little effort. There are a few requirements on the hardware though. The ethernet controller must allow you to send packets with a "fake" source MAC address. Also, the Unix system must have bpf. It's unfortunate, but a VAX/Alpha running OpenVMS is the only thing you can connect directly to HECnet. For anything else you end up needing an intermediary to serve as a DECnet router - either an OpenVMS machine or a NetBSD machine, as described above. I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. I could probably set something like that up again, if needed. Don't know if anything but RSX and VMS supported DECnet over asynch serial lines, though. It's possible that the Linux DECnet implementation supports tunneling over TCP/IP that's compatible with Multinet, but I can't remember. Christine would know. If that's true, then it would be a third option. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I've also talking a bit with John Wilson (who writes E11) about possibly adding the bridging code directly in E11, so that you'd have an ethernet interface which would go directly out on the net. That's not working yet, but if people are interested, I'm sure John could cook that up fast enough. Johnny

16 years, 9 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny wrote: You also need to figure out where to connect to, "physically". That is, which remote machine will you talk to, and using which protocol. There are several options. Most people either use a VMS machine as a router, and go through an IP-tunneled connection handled by VMS, or they use my bridge program, which acts just like any bridge. Right - you either need a VAX or Alpha running OpenVMS and the Multinet TCP/IP package (both of which have free hobbyist licenses), OR you need a Unix host running Johnny's bridge program. I believe in the latter case NetBSD is preferred, but Johnny can correct me if that's wrong. It's unfortunate, but a VAX/Alpha running OpenVMS is the only thing you can connect directly to HECnet. For anything else you end up needing an intermediary to serve as a DECnet router - either an OpenVMS machine or a NetBSD machine, as described above. It's possible that the Linux DECnet implementation supports tunneling over TCP/IP that's compatible with Multinet, but I can't remember. Christine would know. If that's true, then it would be a third option. Bob

16 years, 9 months

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