On 2013-10-02 23:59, Clem Cole wrote:
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com
<mailto:mcguire at neurotica.com>> wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds
on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other
emacs implementations YMMV.
In addition, a port of Emacs is actually not that trivial.
Anyone familiar with TOPS-20 (or OS/8, or probably some other of DEC OSes) will probably recognize what I'm going to write next.
Emacs "knows" how an executable looks like, and how the memory layout is of the running program, and how dynamic libraries work, and so on. Because, as a part of building emacs, emacs will start bare bone, read in all kind of initial lisp packages, compile stuff, and create a finalized emacs in memory that is running with all the bit and pieces of initialization code already run. At that point, emacs will do a memory dump to disk, and munge that file to be an executable. And that is the actual emacs binary.
For any new system, and especially for any new binary image format, emacs needs to be taught all about it.
But anyway, if the scope would be "emacs" and not "GNU emacs", then implementations exists for just about everything. I've written a small emacs-clone in TECO-8, there exists multiple Emacs clones for MS-DOS (maybe the best known is Epsilon). Stacken (the computer club at the Royal Institute of Technology) wrote an emacs clone called AMIS, which ran on VMS way back, as well as on Tops-10, RSTS/E, Norsk Data machines, and god knows what else.
There is MicroEMACS, which is really easy to port around (I have it running on RSX).
2BSD have JOVE.
I'm sure people can easily come up with other implementations...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Oct 2, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if your problem turns out to be related to the block size. DEC machines wants disks (including CD) to have 512 byte blocks. A majority of CD drives do 2048 byte blocks. Not compatible.
If it doesn't have a physical sector-size jumper, it won't work. I've never met a compatible drive that didn't have the jumper. By the way, this is the same type of drive needed for an old Sun Sparcstation, if you have one of those lying around...
Ian
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 05:56 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Otherwise, if you have a spare SCSI disk, you could dump the installation
image onto it (e.g. with dd) and use it as if it were a CD-ROM.
I hae a spare SCSI disk...but no way to write the image to scsi disk
other than VMS. The current VMS install albeit touchy would work for that.
You don't have a random Linux box there with a SCSI interface?
What about the Netra T1-105? That'd do it.
-Dave
It doesn't have the correct SCSI interface...I don't have any adapters to toss in SCA drives.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2013-10-02 23:08, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
Eh... And... The speed you write with have no relation to the data eventually ending up on the CD, nor the speed you read them off. The speed relates to the time it will take to read/write the disk...
Johnny
Ahh. I assumed it was something related to timing.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 10/02/2013 05:59 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds
on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other
emacs implementations YMMV.
Actually the statement holds quite well for anything people are likely
to run into, and certainly everything we talk about HERE save for
PDP-10s and PDP-11s. No, not a Commodore 64 or a PDP-8, but let's be
reasonable.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-10-02 23:29, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
:rolleyes:
That generally has no correlation whatsoever. What's important is
whether
or not the CD-rom can read the recordable media you're using. Some
record-
able media works better than other in older CD-rom drives.
Hey, I haven't touched CD-ROM stuff in awhile! ;)
You need a refresher...
BTW, the drive you have installed, is it jumpered for 512 byte blocks???
I'm not even seeing a jumper for it on the drive. Drive is a crippled
Apple CR-507-C (Hey! It's the only working SCSI CD-ROM drive I have!)
I wouldn't be surprised if your problem turns out to be related to the block size. DEC machines wants disks (including CD) to have 512 byte blocks. A majority of CD drives do 2048 byte blocks. Not compatible.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other emacs implementations YMMV.
Also, for smaller or non-linear address spaces, GNU emacs might have been ported, but it probably has not been and you are very likely to be SOL.
vi on the other hand was ported to just about everything I saw from the Z80 on forward (using the BTL z80 C compiler) - which is quite a testament to making cruft >>v6<< UNIX code from 1978 move before the days of ANSI C.
I remember hating it when I saw it -- "who wrote this piece of ... " but when I realized it was just ed I was enlightened and it made sense (which is scary I know).
I also saw the comment about SOS and smiled - that's an editor I have not seen in years. It was my first PDP-10 editor (and for VAX #1) as we had ASR-33s not even VT-52s at that point. I remember the joy for a couple of us when somebody got teco running on the Vax - darned if I can remember who that was.
On 2 Oct 2013, at 23:50, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Good to hear that! Something I've been considering for a while is that if they were to join, should we invite their whole userbase to the HECnet mailing list or possibly just the EISNER adminds?
Uh? God no! I think anyone who are interested should subscribe themself anyway, and let the rest be.
I wasn't suggesting that at all, in fact the next paragraph states the opposite quite clearly.
I personally think the admins would make a better choice, there are lists like DECTEK for general DEChead stuff.
I think that should be entirely up to them.
You could perhaps create a notes group for HECnet on EISNER?
As for admins being on the mailing list, this could be useful but of course mandatory.
Brian, if we get this going, how do I create a new NOTES group?
(I'm a total NOTES n00b)
On 10/02/2013 05:56 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Otherwise, if you have a spare SCSI disk, you could dump the installation
image onto it (e.g. with dd) and use it as if it were a CD-ROM.
I hae a spare SCSI disk...but no way to write the image to scsi disk
other than VMS. The current VMS install albeit touchy would work for that.
You don't have a random Linux box there with a SCSI interface?
What about the Netra T1-105? That'd do it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/02/2013 05:50 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Good to hear that! Something I've been considering for a while is that
if they were to join, should we invite their whole userbase to the
HECnet mailing list or possibly just the EISNER adminds?
Uh? God no! I think anyone who are interested should subscribe themself
anyway, and let the rest be.
Johnny does NOT like email traffic. ;)
I personally think the admins would make a better choice, there are
lists like DECTEK for general DEChead stuff.
I think that should be entirely up to them.
You could perhaps create a notes group for HECnet on EISNER?
That's a good idea.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
