-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 12:08 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: Brian Hechinger
Subject: Re: [HECnet] PDP-11 Programming Job
On 2013-04-19 17:47, Brian Hechinger wrote:
http://ds5.org/4190
Someone should go do that.
Paul, I'm looking at you. :)
Damn! Canada is a bit far from Switzerland... :-)
Johnny
But NOT from New Hampshire! :-)
-Steve
Amen. Yep all generations of CS students should read the paper: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD01xx/EWD196.html
is a transcription. It's the first use of "rings" or "levels" that DC would implement later for VMS.
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:46 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
On 04/19/2013 02:39 PM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
El 19/04/2013, a les 19:48, Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> va escriure:
How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job?
Not at a job, but the first "real" computer I put my hands on was a Motorola EXORCiser, with a TTY attached (no CRT) when I was at High School. The only way I had to "save" programs was paper tape. Eventually I got a nice 8 inch floppy, but I was using paper tape for a while.
Similar story here, but with a PDP-8/e. It had DECtape (TU56) and paper
tape. I still have the system.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
El 19/04/2013, a les 19:48, Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> va escriure:
How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job?
Not at a job, but the first "real" computer I put my hands on was a Motorola EXORCiser, with a TTY attached (no CRT) when I was at High School. The only way I had to "save" programs was paper tape. Eventually I got a nice 8 inch floppy, but I was using paper tape for a while.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
For historical amusement...
In reading the Phase II NSP spec, I spotted a summary of how that differs from Phase I. I've never seen any Phase I documents (perhaps no formal documents ever existed?). From the discussion in the Phase II spec, it's clear that Phase I is quite a different protocol. Phase II through IV are all very closely related, especially at layer 4 and above. Not so Phase I -- it would be quite difficult (at best) to make an NSP implementation that could speak both Phase I and Phase II. I don't see any signs that this was ever done. For example, there is no "how to interoperate with the previous version" chapter in the Phase II spec -- unlike the Phase III and IV specs.
paul
How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZNR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason at gmail.com
-----Original Message----- From: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 12:39 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
El 19/04/2013, a les 18:32, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
Speaking of IBM...what'd be the maximum storage capacity of a punched card? I was thinking of TCP/IP over paper tape last night...
TCP/IP over punched cards carried by pigeons, of course.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On 19 Apr 2013, at 13:39, "Jordi Guillaumes i Pons" <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
El 19/04/2013, a les 18:32, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
Speaking of IBM...what'd be the maximum storage capacity of a punched card? I was thinking of TCP/IP over paper tape last night...
TCP/IP over punched cards carried by pigeons, of course.
I mentioned that in my next reply. ;)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
El 19/04/2013, a les 18:32, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
Speaking of IBM...what'd be the maximum storage capacity of a punched card? I was thinking of TCP/IP over paper tape last night...
TCP/IP over punched cards carried by pigeons, of course.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Paul_Koning wrote:
On Apr 19, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
...
IBM made me do it!
Speaking of IBM...what'd be the maximum storage capacity of a punched card? I was thinking of TCP/IP over paper tape last night...
I sense an april 1 RFC here... :-)
Maybe! I could always make it IPoPC/ACR (IP over Punched Card/Avian-Carrier relay)
Classic 80 column punched card: 120 bytes if punched in unrestricted "column binary", 80 byte if punched in extended EBCDIC code (as on the IBM 360 green card) where only one of rows 1-7 is punched per column.
Hmm. It would be rather slow on real hardware, but it seems like it might be doable to "network" older systems. ;)
paul
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
