On 04/20/2013 12:14 PM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
$1000.00? For this?:
http://ns1758.ca/winch/heathkit0029.jpg
In a heartbeat.
It was a nightmare. lol
Uh. I'm not looking for one to use for storage for my mail server or
anything. ;)
And the box containing the 11/03 wasn't much
better. Except for the dust, our H-11 looked exactly like this one:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
Yup. They sucked. But they are very rare, and fairly historically
important, as the only minicomputer (architecturally speaking) to be sold as
a kit. (even though the CPU board itself was supplied assembled, unmodified,
from DEC)
And you haven't had joy in your life until you've put together and tried
to type on that tinker-toy Heathkit terminal (clickity-klackity). Don't
forget you can't delete characters by using backspace, you use rubout:
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_HeathkitH89_02.JPG
Yup, the H-9. Mine is the only one I know of that actually works.
I "DID" like that 8" drive however as it would format floppies. ;-)
Yup. Those are almost as scarce as the H-10, unfortunately. I have the
not-quite-as-scarce H17 (dual 5.25" hard-sectored floppy) on one of my H-8s.
The DEC paper-tape drive on the other hand, worked like a dream. It
is probably worth the $1k+ to get it:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~djg/htdocs/pc04/frontasmb.jpg
Oh yes. And they go for a lot more than $1K.
I myself have an HP optical (300CPS) paper tape reader with a homebrew
Positive I/O Bus interface for the PDP-8/e. It works a treat.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/20/2013 08:40 AM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
$1000.00? For this?:
http://ns1758.ca/winch/heathkit0029.jpg
It was a nightmare. lol And the box containing the 11/03 wasn't much
better. Except for the dust, our H-11 looked exactly like this one:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
And you haven't had joy in your life until you've put together and tried
to type on that tinker-toy Heathkit terminal (clickity-klackity). Don't
forget you can't delete characters by using backspace, you use rubout:
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_HeathkitH89_02.JPG
I "DID" like that 8" drive however as it would format floppies. ;-)
The DEC paper-tape drive on the other hand, worked like a dream. It
is probably worth the $1k+ to get it:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~djg/htdocs/pc04/frontasmb.jpg
The 8-inch
floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
Ahh, the Heath BASTARDIZED RT-11. ;)
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was.
I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software,
Neat!
but sadly after I
left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the
PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and
power distribution supplies (sad).
SUITS!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 04/20/2013 08:40 AM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
The 8-inch
floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
Ahh, the Heath BASTARDIZED RT-11. ;)
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was.
I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software,
Neat!
but sadly after I
left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the
PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and
power distribution supplies (sad).
SUITS!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Yup, old people :-)
Last month I bought an rx2600. The guy eas around 30. He showed me a small carddeck, about an inch high, and asked how thede things were used. he also eanted to know how many lines could be printed on a card and how they were read by the computer.
the answers surprised him no end
Hans
Van: Brett Bump
Verzonden: zaterdag 20 april 2013 14:40 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My
introduction to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college)
when my physics prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really)
that had the nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we
could get it to load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy
drive functional and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the
trash heap. The 8-inch floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system
was. I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software, but
sadly after I left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in
the trash and the PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected
for the cabinets and power distribution supplies (sad).
Brett
Side note: Keith (KE7BWR) is now retired and living in Utah.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, h vlems wrote:
> Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
> The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could
> use a terminal.
> hans
>
> It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
>
> Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
> Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
> Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> >
> > How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the
> mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
>
> That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
>
> My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at
> the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer
> output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic
> I/O architecture that I never really understood.
>
> BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a
> Model 35 isn't as good.
>
> Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap. The 8-inch floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11, LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was. I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software, but sadly after I left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and power distribution supplies (sad).
Brett
Side note: Keith (KE7BWR) is now retired and living in Utah.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, h vlems wrote:
Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could
use a terminal.
hans
It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the
mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at
the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer
output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic
I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a
Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could use a terminal.
hans
It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
Sorry for the shotgun-style forward, but this just came across classiccmp,
and I thought it might be of interest here.
-Dave
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: DEC BA350 etc and RZxx-xx drives
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 21:40:45 -0500
From: Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com>
Reply-To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>,
cctech at vax-11.org
I have about 25 BA350 style enclosures, BA35x power supplies, and
RZ24,25,26, 28,29,40, etc. Some are in canisters, some are bare drives.
I'm trying to clear a path and it's all in my way. Take one or all.
shipping from IL, 61853. Please contact me off list
Thanks, Paul
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> wrote:
Yah, it was 6 bit tape for text preparation, with 8 bit tape used for
programming & setup of the phototypesetters. Meant a lot of messing around
with the tape readers, since one width of tape expected the feed holes to
align with the center of the data holes, and the other width expected the
feed holes to align with the leading edge of the data holes.
Speaking of Flexowriters, we had one of those for doing commercial mass
mailings that looked typewritten - I still have one of the 576 bit core
memories it used. Each memory board was about 8X11 inches. The individuals
cores are really big on these boards.
Good times...when you weren't dozens of levels removed from the actual
physic of computation.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason at comcast.net
-----Original Message----- From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:46 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first
computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70
was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers
and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only
gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed
with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing
papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized
for Algol 60. That was at the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as
THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a
batch system: paper tape in, line printer output. Magnetic tapes available
in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips
(Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic I/O
architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built
anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as
Model 33, and even a Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
Hello!
Interesting. I recall a PDP-8 based system who accepted 8 level (or 8
bit) punched paper tape from a terminal and also for composition. That
was fed in through the reader on a Model 33. Naturally after the
terminal (the teletype) would cue the operator that the system
finished reading the job tape, it would then create one containing the
composed work, it would the be fed to a Merganthaler VIP, and the
output device would run.
The terminal who did all that as it happens ran its programming via an
Intel C8008-1 processor. The PDP-8 was a PDP-8E.
--------------
Dave don't do that, don't do that.... **Sounds of an exploding
something are heard and suddenly big blue clouds are surrounding the
offices.** The voice you heard was the Doctor trying to convince you
to not try and run some example of hardware that he handed you. He
himself took off for his TARDIS to try and prevent a huge tear in Time
itself. He was marginally successful.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 04/19/2013 09:14 PM, Brett Bump wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/19/2013 03:27 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
73,
Is that a number, a misplaced number, or did I break my encoding
again?
It's ham parlance, CW shorthand, that basically means "seeya, have a
good one".
Actually it means "Regards" or "Best Regards".
Oh good heavens. Same sentiment...and used in exactly that way since well
before either of us were born.
-Dave
Actually, I always thought 73's was an unconscious binary genetic implant,
with the intented result that all ham's would always have a burning desire
to own a PDP-11/73. ;-)
73's,
Brett (N0LQG)
YES!!
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
