HECnet

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

5 participants
15580 discussions

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: Are you sure about Able? I can't remember seeing any such thing from them. Quite sure - the "other KO" designed it - Ken O'h* (I don't remember how to spell is last name). Ken O'h formed Able after Olsen shut him down with the CalData machine (an 11/45 clone). The Able 16 port serial product was called the DHDM. I wish I still had one. I do still have the doc set for them in the basement, along with his original "Enable" card he built for us UNIX guys - which was a slick take on a cache and bus repeater. + The DHDM could definitely do speeds of 19.2K but I think they could do 38.4K and may be higher, I forget - have to look at the prints ;-) I put the code into BSD support the higher speeds, base AT&T used the EXT A/B stuff. I'm pretty sure the original DEC DH maxed at 9600. I want to say it was at a sumer USENIX conference the late 1980's (Austin maybe) that a number of us tried to get Ken O'h to put the DHDM on an ISA bus, but Ken O'h did not think he could make enough money at it (he was used to PDP-11 peripheral pricing, not PC community pricing). Eventually others created the "Rocket Port" board became the RS-232C board for much of the early PC/386 based UNIX systems (I think I do still have one them).. As Ken O'h once said to a number of us. DEC's KO taught him a lesson and he was careful to never create a processor again. DEC shut him down for >>sourcing<< the UNIBUS. His Caches/Repeaters were as far as he would go from a product stand point. A few years later, he did manage to splice a 68010 on the the Unibus, but I don't he ever sold it because he was scared of KO. I want to say he gave them to a few people to play with. I saw the board when I visited him in ~1984 but never programmed it. But I think I remember that some of the BTL folks might have had a few. As for your other comment about "enough for common use" WRT the modem control lines - actually that was not true for the UNIX community. DZ was short pinned++ one had enough to sort of support >>dial-in<< (i.e. off-hook/CD detection but because if used wanted to run uucp, modems needed to control an autodialers and thus needed to support the whole magilla. Remember UNIX comes from the TPC (The Phone Company) - so base UNIX had all the support for AT&T communications equipment. When modems started to add the autodial "in-band" (the @ command stuff - which was not how the AT&T 212 stuff worked), that gave you dial out - but required XON/XOFF for flow control. Trying to use an in-band flow technique like XON/XOF was an anathema to an 8 bit protocol. So the fancy modems like the Telebit et al used an out-band scheme keep from overflowing - i.e. the modem control signals of RTS/CTS used s a handshake. In fact on the very cool things that we got Ken O'h to do on the DHDM, was connect the input (which I think I remember is CTS - I've forgotten) and the USART interrupt through an NAND gate so the processor did not get the final "data sent interrupt" until the downstream device was ready for it. This made a huge difference on PDP-11s and Vaxen. Clem Footnotes: + I did the SW support for the "Enable" when I was at Tek. Johnny since you have asked me for source, one of my earier academic papers was: C.T. Cole, S. Huxley, "A Large Address Space UNIX for a PDP 11/40" that describes it. ++ You'll have to accept this as it or send Dave Cane a note directly if you want verified. Dave as the head of the 750 project (had been part if the 780 did some 11 stuff before and thus did not realize that all the signals mattered). When Dave did the first version of the Masscomp machine he stole the modem control signals from the console to create a clock interrupt. I did not join the project until after was too late to fix that. What a mess ;-) But Dave learned, RTS/CTS was very important and did not do that again (at least that I now of).

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/02/2013 06:37 AM, Brett Bump wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. I think you have that wrong. I believe that is purr-fectly-behaved. ;-) Absolutely. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-02 18:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On May 1, 2013, at 10:32 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-01 23:18, Clem Cole wrote: ...The Able DH's actually could run at faster speeds than the DEC one did. Are you sure about Able? I can't remember seeing any such thing from them. Emulex did that, though. SC02 and various incarnations. It didn't have full modem control, but enough for the common use. Speed was better than a real DH-11 for sure, as well as just taking one slot. How can speed be better? DH-11s had no trouble running all 16 lines at line rate -- RSTS did that routinely. In fact, RSTS systems were used at DEC as system test controllers for that reason (with a number of DH-11 controllers, or possibly DHU-11 later on, controlling the consoles of numerous systems under test). Bad phrasing on my part. DH-11 runs the lines at a maximum of 9600 bps. The Emulex card could also run them at 19200 bps, using the speed code called Ext.A on the DH-11. Johnny

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On May 1, 2013, at 10:32 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-01 23:18, Clem Cole wrote: ...The Able DH's actually could run at faster speeds than the DEC one did. Are you sure about Able? I can't remember seeing any such thing from them. Emulex did that, though. SC02 and various incarnations. It didn't have full modem control, but enough for the common use. Speed was better than a real DH-11 for sure, as well as just taking one slot. How can speed be better? DH-11s had no trouble running all 16 lines at line rate -- RSTS did that routinely. In fact, RSTS systems were used at DEC as system test controllers for that reason (with a number of DH-11 controllers, or possibly DHU-11 later on, controlling the consoles of numerous systems under test). paul

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by bbump＠rsts.org

On Wed, 1 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/01/2013 11:29 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. I think you have that wrong. I believe that is purr-fectly-behaved. ;-) Brett

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by dugo＠xs4all.nl

On 2013-05-01 23:29, Gregg Levine wrote: I'm not sure what terminals they used, since Cliff didn't note that bit of trivia. Probably the same as those starring in The KGB, the Computer and Me. re, /Jacob

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by b4＠gewt.net

On 1 May 2013, at 23:45, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 05/01/2013 11:40 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. So THERE. Hello! They are? They are. That means that an individual outside your windows right now who has been paying them to be like that is indeed doing the right thing. I'm fine with that. Wherever the good behavior comes from, I don't care...as long as it continues. :) This still does not explain why what did happen to Jordi's setup, and what happened to Corey, and the other stuff is still attached to you. Well I can't say much to that, I'm afraid. I can however! I've been busy with finishing up the odd thing here and there along with my main side project of a late-50s/early-60s cabinet phonograph. If I wanted to, I could theoretically rig the amp up to interface with say, any system. Perhaps even VAX gear! (Along with a sign on your back that one of the cats just put there.) They always do that. That's as close to "poor behavior" as they get. How's the config for this done in VMS? I'm wiling to open a simulated line to you as a test, Jordi. I'm assuming DEFINING a circuit in NCP? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/01/2013 11:40 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. So THERE. Hello! They are? They are. That means that an individual outside your windows right now who has been paying them to be like that is indeed doing the right thing. I'm fine with that. Wherever the good behavior comes from, I don't care...as long as it continues. :) This still does not explain why what did happen to Jordi's setup, and what happened to Corey, and the other stuff is still attached to you. Well I can't say much to that, I'm afraid. (Along with a sign on your back that one of the cats just put there.) They always do that. That's as close to "poor behavior" as they get. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 05/01/2013 11:29 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. So THERE. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA Hello! They are? That means that an individual outside your windows right now who has been paying them to be like that is indeed doing the right thing. This still does not explain why what did happen to Jordi's setup, and what happened to Corey, and the other stuff is still attached to you. (Along with a sign on your back that one of the cats just put there.) ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

12 years, 4 months

DDCMP over asynchronous emulated lines on simh 4.0

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/01/2013 11:29 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: Incidentally all of today's problems are Dave's fault. Including that sneaker or shoe lace you broke Corey and the fact that someone's cat caused an expensive object to break. They are NOT my fault. I have had a massively successful day that has just been overflowing with "win". And my cats are perfectly-behaved. So THERE. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 4 months

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

HECnet