On 2014-01-01 14:19, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't
normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a
separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes,
if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do
that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again
later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
While it is extremely unlikely that I will ever run RSX-11, the
above ability surprises me. Please clarify to make sure that
I understand. It is my impression that RSX-11 requires
all device drivers to be LOADed at boot time and always
be kept LOADed. TSX-Plus has this requirement and I
guess I assumed that RSX-11 was similar.
Based on your information, I understand that RSX-11 does
support a device driver UNLOAD and REMOVE commands
(or whatever syntax is used in RSX-11 since I just used the
RT-11 syntax). So please confirm.
Yes. That is correct. You can load and unload device drivers at runtime. That is actually a very important design feature in RSX.
So your understanding about RSX have been totally wrong.
Device drivers that are currently in use can not be unloaded, however. Which means that the boot device can't be unloaded, for instance.
In M+ the ability is even better, as device driver loading and unloading is not related to devices being online or offline.
Not sure exactly what your distinction between unload and remove is.
In RSX terms, you LOAD and UNLOAD device drivers. In 11M, an implicit online of a device is done when you load it, and offline is done on a device before unloading it. In M+ the offline and online steps are separate commands, which just requires that a device driver is loaded.
Even more fun is M+ is that device drivers do not need to be recompiled if you recompile the kernel. Device drivers are totally independent of the kernel.
Also, file systems are also separate, and handled by something called an ACP, which is a separate task. This means that you can have different types of file systems on different disks.
ACPs hook into device drivers, but device drivers have no clue about ACPs.
In respect of RSTS/E, is this possible as well or does RSTS/E
have the same requirement as TSX-Plus?
I think RSTS/E is less flexible, from what I can remember.
Johnny
>Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
While it is extremely unlikely that I will ever run RSX-11, the
above ability surprises me. Please clarify to make sure that
I understand. It is my impression that RSX-11 requires
all device drivers to be LOADed at boot time and always
be kept LOADed. TSX-Plus has this requirement and I
guess I assumed that RSX-11 was similar.
Based on your information, I understand that RSX-11 does
support a device driver UNLOAD and REMOVE commands
(or whatever syntax is used in RSX-11 since I just used the
RT-11 syntax). So please confirm.
In respect of RSTS/E, is this possible as well or does RSTS/E
have the same requirement as TSX-Plus?
Jerome Fine
On 2014-01-01 08:33, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do
that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation
from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect
devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX
system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick
you'd like to do? :-)
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
On the 11/74 you more or less had this, in the form of hotplugging whole bus segments. One a bus segment was disconnected, you could power it off, and remove controllers if you wanted.
Johnny
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
Officially, it does (if you have a DT03 or DT07 bus switch).
Pretty rare though...
John Wilson
D Bit
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do
that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation
from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect
devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX
system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick
you'd like to do? :-)
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-01-01 00:52, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>John Wilson wrote:
The order of dependence on strictly working (and/or accurately emulated)
hardware goes: RT => RSX => RSTS. So the fact that something works
with RT proves *nothing*! (I've learned this the hard way so many
times.)
Of course, looked at another way, it's nice of RT to be willing to run
on hardware that's not long for this world...
... OR the CSR for the hardware and the device driver do not
match. Fortunately, RT-11 allows the user to change the
CSR after the boot (for a data device obviously). After that,
the user can INSTALL and LOAD.
RT-11 also supports UNLOAD and REMOVE if a user
needs to power down a data hard drive and physically replace
that drive with a different hard drive. This is really especially
helpful with MSCP devices. If the user has ONLY the single
controller to boot RT-11, VM: can be used to hold the few
essential files required by the operating system. At that point,
the hard drive on an MSCP device can have the power
and cable removed (after the RT-11 UNLOAD and REMOVE)
and a different hard drive substituted (followed by the RT-11
INSTALL and LOAD commands). Try doing that on RSX-11
or RSTS/E.
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
Johnny
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
...or rather, sidestepped. I asked about this issue yesterday in case
anyone had a quick "problem X can definitely cause that" response,
before diving in with XXDP, etc. I checked power and configuration, all
good, so I...dove in with XXDP.
I have three 11/24 CPUs. Two of them drop to ODT when I run the JKDA
diag, for the F11 MMU. Those two also report errors in every MS11-P
board that I have (about eight) at the end of every 16KB "page" of
memory during the ZMSP test. The third board passes all tests, and runs
RSX11M's ACF without hanging. It's running sysgen now, and I expect the
new executive to boot fine.
Aren't memory errors annoying? They cause problems somewhere...but not
elsewhere!
Something is clearly up with those other two boards.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
>John Wilson wrote:
The order of dependence on strictly working (and/or accurately emulated)
hardware goes: RT => RSX => RSTS. So the fact that something works
with RT proves *nothing*! (I've learned this the hard way so many times.)
Of course, looked at another way, it's nice of RT to be willing to run
on hardware that's not long for this world...
... OR the CSR for the hardware and the device driver do not
match. Fortunately, RT-11 allows the user to change the
CSR after the boot (for a data device obviously). After that,
the user can INSTALL and LOAD.
RT-11 also supports UNLOAD and REMOVE if a user
needs to power down a data hard drive and physically replace
that drive with a different hard drive. This is really especially
helpful with MSCP devices. If the user has ONLY the single
controller to boot RT-11, VM: can be used to hold the few
essential files required by the operating system. At that point,
the hard drive on an MSCP device can have the power
and cable removed (after the RT-11 UNLOAD and REMOVE)
and a different hard drive substituted (followed by the RT-11
INSTALL and LOAD commands). Try doing that on RSX-11
or RSTS/E.
Jerome Fine
Sure thing.
Michael Holmes
5922 Langton Drive
Alexandria, VA 22310
USA
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:29 PM, "Sampsa Laine" <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Dude,
I'm pretty sure you're gonna win this with like less than 24 hours to go, can you send me your mailing address so I can mail the cert + prize to you :)
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 30 Nov 2013, at 03:18, Michael Holmes <mholmes10 at hotmail.com> wrote:
hey Sampas,
I played and got a high score..
Not sure how to "screen shot" on Mac, but cut and pasted the following from terminal to help verify it.
Oct TETRIS Mark Wickens 7640 1 TETRIS Mike Holmes 9816 18
Sep TETRIS DRB 1040 2 SAMPSA 130 1
Aug SAMPSA [A 126
Jul TETRIS Lanny 740
Jun TETRIS volal 11860
May TETRIS tiguco 2799
Apr TETRIS 14
Mar TETRIS TooCool4Web 4430
Feb TETRIS u 1567
Jan TETRIS 268
Dec TETRIS 128
Nov TETRIS 585
You Are Seated At 1 In tetris Previous Score 2000
Enter Your Name [ Return to Leave ] Current Score 9816
%DCL-E-CAPTINT, captive account - interactive access denied
TETRIS logged out at 30-NOV-2013 03:46:58.48
%REM-S-END, control returned to node MASON::
$
thanks Mike
----------------------------------------
From: sampsa at mac.com
Subject: [HECnet] CHIMPY Retro Tetris Update
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:47:15 +0200
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
CHIMPY Retro Tetris Update:
Mark Wickens is in the lead with a score of 7,640, followed by Vilaca with 1,574 (score not verified with screenshot so might not count).
Guys, we're still running until 23:59:00 GMT on 31-DEC-2013 so there's plenty of time to win random Arabic money AND certificates of Tetris awesomeness.
Telnet to CHIMPY.SAMPSA.COM or SET HOST CHIMPY, log in as TETRIS.
REMEMBER TO SCREENSHOT YOUR RESULT IF YOU GET A NEW HIGHSCORE. Or at least write down what date/time/node you came from if SET HOST, so I can verify the score..
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 12/31/2013 01:03 PM, John Wilson wrote:
When do you say it hangs, do you mean it's looping (executing PDP-11
code -- might be worth seeing what and/or looking at the stack to see
how it got there), or that the bus is hung and the CPU is stuck?
I didn't investigate to that level. I just figured I'd fire the
question at the gang here since it'd been so long since I'd messed with RSX.
The hardware is, as far as I can tell, otherwise fine. I built the
system up from parts a few weeks ago, and have exercised it with RT-11.
The order of dependence on strictly working (and/or accurately emulated)
hardware goes: RT => RSX => RSTS. So the fact that something works
with RT proves *nothing*! (I've learned this the hard way so many times.)
Indeed...I've been bitten by that a few times as well. Like this time. ;)
Of course, looked at another way, it's nice of RT to be willing to run
on hardware that's not long for this world...
True. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
