HECnet

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5 participants
15580 discussions

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

The recent thread "Disallow system from dz lines (OpenVMS/VAX 7.3)" started me wondering how to entirely disable the login prompts on a given serial line, such as to use the port for some other purpose like controlling external hardware. I've been trying to find out how to do that in the manuals, but I haven't found it yet. It seems like it might be something to do with SET TERM, but I don't see obvious flags for that. Can anybody offer any hints? I won't be too surprised if my eyes have already glided over the answer in the manuals and HELP SET TERM text. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> https://www.nf6x.net/

3 years, 9 months

Disallow login on DZ line in VMS

by system＠TMESIS.COM

"Mark J. Blair" <nf6x at nf6x.net> writes: >The recent thread "Disallow system from dz lines (OpenVMS/VAX 7.3)" = >started me wondering how to entirely disable the login prompts on a = >given serial line, such as to use the port for some other purpose like = >controlling external hardware. I've been trying to find out how to do = >that in the manuals, but I haven't found it yet. It seems like it might = >be something to do with SET TERM, but I don't see obvious flags for = >that. Can anybody offer any hints? I won't be too surprised if my eyes = >have already glided over the answer in the manuals and HELP SET TERM = >text. Set the terminal line /NOTYPE_AHEAD. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

3 years, 9 months

DECnet/E programming manual / examples

by wboerhout＠gmail.com

Hi folks, I need to port a simple DECnet task-to-task program to RSTS/E V10.1, DECnet/E V4.1 Do any of you PDP-11 buffs have a DECnet/E programming manual. I know bitsavers doesn't. A small example in Fortran, Basic, Basic-Plus will also do. The functionality, expressed in VMS DCL, is as follows: $ open /read /write NETCHN REMOTE::"150=" $ write NETCHN "''f$trnlnm(SYS$NODE)'" $ read NETCHN time $ close NETCHN Thanks, Wilm

3 years, 9 months

Disallow system from dz lines (OpenVMS/VAX 7.3)

by supratim＠riseup.net

OpenVMS VAX 7.3: This stops remote logins to SYSTEM even if correct password is provided (works for set host and telnet with Digital TCP/IP, though my version of MULTINET does not honor it). Is there a way to deny SYSTEM account access when correct password is provided from DZ lines? Network:? -----? No access? ------??????????? -----? No access? ------ Batch:??? ##### Full access ######??????????? ##### Full access ###### Local:??? ##### Full access ######??????????? ##### Full access ###### Dialup:?? -----? No access? ------??????????? -----? No access ------ Remote:?? -----? No access? ------??????????? -----? No access ------ Thank you. Supratim

3 years, 9 months

continued adventure with buggy DECnet on VAX/VMS 3.5

by supratim＠riseup.net

I turned the Ethernet circuit off and set up a DMC line to DECnet/Python. What seems to be interesting is the Area does not seem to be propagating as part of the DECnet address and confusing DECnet/Python. [Non-Issue, just saying.] The following four things are reported in a loop. Event type 4.11, Initialization failure, line fault#012? From node 31.32 (PIPY), occurred 17-Dec-2021 16:03:05.499#012? Circuit = DDCMP-31-42#012??? Reason = Circuit synchronization lost Event type 4.10, Circuit up#012? From node 31.32 (PIPY), occurred 17-Dec-2021 16:03:15.473#012? Circuit = DDCMP-31-42#012 Adjacent node = 31.42 DDCMP-31-42 packet from wrong node 42 Event type 4.18, Adjacency down#012? From node 31.32 (PIPY), occurred 17-Dec-2021 16:03:15.494#012? Circuit = DDCMP-31-42#012??? Reason = Adjacency address out of range#012 Adjacent node = 31.42

3 years, 9 months

LAT

by bqt＠softjar.se

Jeez. After a lot of pain, and still not entirely good, I can at least report some good things about LAT with regards to Linux and RSX. As I mentioned before, there is some kind of a problem between the Linux latd and RSX LAT server. Using llogin to login on RSX systems, the terminal hangs after a while, and there is also some memory leak causing RSX to eventually become non-functional. The Linux latd code is horribly weird and ever after digging through it for days, it still does things I cannot explain. But there is definitely one bug in there, which is that it does not count credits when receiving data_b slots. That means the sender can run out of credits, while the Linux latd thinks the remote still have credits, and will not extend more. The "funny" thing is that Linux latd do count the credits when sending data_b slots. So I'd say that is a very obvious error in Linux latd (also - LAT documentation clearly states that data_b slots counts against credits). I've fixed this, and that solved the hanging problem towards RSX. I'm honestly surprised if this has not been a problem anywhere else, as it's the same for any kind of system. Either other systems are not sending data_b slots, or else there are bugs on more sides. I can provide the patch for this problem, but I wonder if anyone still "owns" that software, to whom I should send this... Second, Linux latd sends attention slots with a stop code of 0x40. This is, according to the LAT documentation, as well as RSX code, an undefined value. Not sure where the Linux latd got that value from. Third, Linux latd is broken when it comes to tracking and dealing with ACKs. This one I have not been able to figure out/understand. I can see on the wire that it's sending packets with a lower ACK number than the previous packet it sent out. Looking at the code, as well as trying to understand this in general seems crazy. It should not be possible for this to happen, but it does. Fortunately, it is on a stop message, for which RSX isn't happy about for other reasons anyway, so it don't matter. But I still thing it's totally crazy. Now, with all that said, I have also had to find and fix a couple of bugs in the RSX LAT code, which also is a little difficult to penetrate. Seems DEC can't really have tested this code that much, and whoever wrote it wasn't careful. Fixed version of the LAT bits have been included in the latest BQTCP distribution. If you install the RSX patches, LAT will be fixed. There are actually two problems I found in there. 1. If a circuit is closed down, and there is currently a transmit in progress, that transmit then becomes a lost buffer upon completion (this is the original RSX error I saw and mentioned before). This is clearly a case of timing issues, which I guess whoever wrote the code just didn't think about, or test carefully. 2. Slot attention messages with a valid stop code cause the system to crash. This is really weird. Because Linux latd was using an undefined value in the attention message, things worked just fine, but if I corrected that, RSX crashed. Which suggests that all terminal servers and other LAT software is in fact also using this wrong value in the attention message. Fixing this was just required saving and restoring a couple of registers at the right place. Again, this can't have been tested at all. Possibly the person writing the code thought he tested it by using DECservers or whatever, but if they actually were sending the wrong code, all looked good, but things did not get executed the way it should. Finally, Linux latd sends a circuit stop message that RSX do not like at all. The reason being that RSX at that point have already deleted the circuit, so it becomes a stop message for a circuit that does not exist. This will cause the illegal message counter to count, but nothing worse than that. I should break out a DECserver and compare to that. But I figure I should let people know about what I've been up to lately, which might also be interesting for others in here... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

3 years, 9 months

Wanted: details on "system specific" NICE messages

by paulkoning＠comcast.net

I'm thinking it would be nice (in the tools with PyDECnet) to be able to do not just standard NICE requests like any other NCP, but also system-specific ones. I can find out what the RSTS ones look like, but I don't know about other systems. I'm pretty sure that both VMS and RSX have system-specific requests, SHOW and/or SET, for things like network objects or logical links and perhaps other stuff. Is there documentation that describes these? Does anyone have information handy? A few days ago VMS listings (from fiche) appeared in Bitsavers, and I suppose I can try to read NCP listings that are in there. Chances are they are in BLISS which I don't know at all... paul

3 years, 9 months

DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 (Was Re: Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET) --> Supratim:vms/decnet 3.5 poisoned?

by R.Voorhorst＠swabhawat.com

Hi Supratim, These tapes can be attached to the simh tdc# devices, read on Vms as Dda0: etc, and behave as disk as expected. Functioning on simh Rq (Vms Dua/b) is kind of a fluke. It looks like the decnet on vms 3.5 is poisoned by phase-IV pieces as Ethernet components are present and component versions in sh exec are not on phase-III levels. Is there an original distro for Vms 3.5 with original Decnet 3.5? Analyse/image on the netacp reveals a lot of patching been done on that program and more then netrtg31 itself does and as it carries version 2 the original is likely not there anymore. Reindert From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Supratim Sanyal Sent: Thursday, 16 December, 2021 19:52 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 (Was Re: [HECnet] Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET) --> retract BTW, the "BE-X083A-BE - DECNET-VAX FULL FUNCTION" thing is not a tape; after failing to mount it as a tape numerous times, a "od -a" dump looked like a disk to me, and guess what, it mounted as a RD54. That is the license I used and looks like it patched to DECnet v3.5. I may have a pretty unique installation then, to be preserved. http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Session log: ^M$ @sys$update:vmsinstal.com NETRTG031.A^M ^M ^M VAX/VMS Software Product Installation Procedure^M ^M ^M It is 14-DEC-1984 at 22:33.^M Enter a question mark (?) at any time for help.^M ^M * Are you satisfied with the backup of your system disk [YES]? ^M * Where will the distribution volumes be mounted: sys$manager:^M ^M %VMSINSTAL-E-NOPRODS, None of the specified products were found.^M ^M Enter the products to be installed from the next distribution volume set.^M * Products [EXIT]: *^M ^M The following products will be installed:^M ^M NETRTG V3.1^M NETRTG V4.0^M ^M ^M Beginning installation of NETRTG V3.1 at 22:33^M ^M %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product saveset A...^M ^M DECnet-VAX Full Function Key installation^M ^M %PATCH-I-NOLCL, image does not contain local symbols^M %PATCH-I-NOGBL, some or all global symbols not accessible^M %PATCH-I-WRTFIL, updating image file VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD.NETRTG031]NETACP.EXE;1^M %VMSINSTAL-I-MOVEFILES, Files will now be moved to their target directories...^M ^M Successful installation of NETRTG V3.1 at 22:33^M ^M ^M ^M Beginning installation of NETRTG V4.0 at 22:33^M ^M %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product saveset A...^M %NETRTG-E-BADVMS, This kit requires version 4.0 of VMS.^M %VMSINSTAL-E-STEP8FAIL, The installation of NETRTG V4.0 has failed.^M ^M Enter the products to be installed from the next distribution volume set.^M * Products [EXIT]: ^M ^M VMSINSTAL procedure done at 22:33^M ^M On 12/16/2021 12:54, Paul Koning wrote: You may have a license problem. If you have a DECnet that supports Ethernet, it must be Phase IV (or V, of course). That means it is required to know about areas. If you have a version that doesn't deal with areas, either it is terminally broken or it is crippled in a way that disables multi-area configurations. You'll need to fix that in order to use it on HECnet. While it's certainly possible to put a Phase III node anywhere in HECnet, with the reachability limitations that Phase III has, it isn't possible to use a "broken areas" Phase "IV" node at all. (Well, unless you can connect it into area 1, I suppose.) paul On Dec 16, 2021, at 11:08 AM, Supratim Sanyal <mailto:supratim at riseup.net> <supratim at riseup.net> wrote: On 12/16/2021 05:41, R. Voorhorst wrote: Question remains, how did you get Decnet 3.0 running and did you obtain the necessary patch. Yes, applied the license. I chose VAX/VMS 3.5 because in March of 2020 you had gone as far as getting a license error on VMS3.0 that said it needed VMS3.4+. I also tried to use the licensed NETACP.EXE on vms3.0, does not look promising, says it has problems loading. At this point, Cisco may be the answer with the nifty feature for DECnet NAT, I will explore it sometime. Anyway, my experiments are here if you or anyone is interested: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x4e6ie4lrwi9wns/AABMogcguAcL8xPwMIDxOtNva?dl=0 On 12/16/2021 04:55, Johnny Billquist wrote: Uh? The mac address AA-00-04-00-2A-7C means it has address 31.42. Just sayin... It's forced at the Linux/SimH level. On 12/15/2021 20:05, Paul Koning wrote: You've got to set MAX AREA large enough; 63 is the obvious value. With it not set, the system apparently is defaulting it to 1, so when you gave it a node address without area number it defaulted the area number to 1, which of course can't work. There is no option, at least in NCP, for any Area parameters. NCP>help set exec SET EXECUTOR Use the SET EXECUTOR command to create or modify parameters in the volatile database which controls the network on the executor node. Use the DEFINE EXECUTOR command to create or modify parameters in the volatile database which controls the network on the executor node. SET EXECUTOR (parameters ...) Additional information available: ALL ADDRESS node-address BROADCAST ROUTING TIMER BUFFER SIZE number COUNTER TIMER seconds DEFAULT ACCESS DELAY FACTOR DELAY WEIGHT IDENTIFICATION INACTIVITY TIMER INCOMING TIMER MAXIMUM ADDRESS MAXIMUM BROADCAST NONROUTERS MAXIMUM BROADCAST ROUTERS MAXIMUM BUFFERS MAXIMUM CIRCUITS MAXIMUM COST MAXIMUM HOPS MAXIMUM LINKS MAXIMUM VISITS NONPRIVILEGED OUTGOING TIMER PIPELINE QUOTA PRIVILEGED RETRANSMIT FACTOR ROUTING TIMER SEGMENT BUFFER SIZE STATE SUBADDRESS range TYPE Examples NODE SET EXECUTOR Subtopic? SET EXECUTOR Subtopic? ex SET EXECUTOR Examples NCP>SET EXECUTOR ADDRESS 11 BUFFER SIZE 576 This command sets the executor node's address to 11 and buffer size to 576 bytes. NCP>SET EXECUTOR STATE ON This command sets the executor node's operational state to ON. SET EXECUTOR Subtopic? ^Z NCP>exit $ -- Supratim Sanyal, W1XMT 39.19151 N, 77.23432 W QCOCAL::SANYAL via HECnet

3 years, 9 months

Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

I'm trying to find the oldest VAX/VMS version which: * Supports DECnet Phase IV over ethernet * Supports the VAX-11/730 * I can get my hands on images of the OS installation and anything (licenses?) needed for DECnet Phase IV I found a .tap image of the VAX/VMS 3.0 distribution at the Russian mirror site. Version 3.0 interests me because I think it was the one that was released to coincide with the VAX-11/730 release. I was able to install it on a SIMH emulation of the 730. I gather that the normal VAX/VMS 3.0 distribution for the VAX-11/730 would be on an RL02 pack instead of a magtape, and I hope that I might figure out how to reconstruct an RL02 pack distribution from what is on the tape image. I have not found any scans of the DECnet-VAX Software Installation Guide or the DECnet-VAX System Manager's Guide yet, and I don't know what needs to be done to install and/or configure DECnet in such an old VMS version. I see that stuff related to DECnet is present after installation, such as STARTNET.COM and NCP.EXE, but DECnet-VAX is referred to as an optional component which must be licensed separately. I gather from discussions elsewhere that there may be at least one critical file missing that serves as the "license" for DECnet-VAX? STARTNET.COM comments instruct that it can be run after creating the permanent database, and trying to run it generates errors like: $ @sys$manager:startnet.com %OPCOM, 8-DEC-1982 13:55:13.31, message from user NETACP DECnet starting %NCP-I-NMLRSP, listener response - File open error, Permanent database %RMS-E-FNF, file not found I don't know how to create the permanent database under VAX/VMS 3.0 yet. I tried running NCP.EXE and issuing a SET EXECUTOR command. It asks for a node address in the range of 1..255, so does that imply that whatever (incomplete?) DECnet code is present there is for Phase III? I'm experimenting with SIMH VAX-11/730 simulations for now. Eventually, I'd like to downgrade the OpenVMS v7.3 installation that came on my real VAX-11/730's R80 drive to something less bloated and more contemporary with my system, but still able to connect to HECNET over ethernet. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> https://www.nf6x.net/

3 years, 9 months

DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 (Was Re: Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET) --> retract

by R.Voorhorst＠swabhawat.com

Sorry, misread the header so my assumptions were wrong Question remains, how did you get Decnet 3.0 running and did you obtain the necessary patch. From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of R. Voorhorst Sent: Thursday, 16 December, 2021 10:35 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: RE: DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 (Was Re: [HECnet] Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET) --> what is this? Supratim, The log is somewhat strange: Decnet 3.0 is phase III, but your executor listings gives management version 4.0.0 and routing version 2.0.0 and type nonrouting IV. Besides, Decnet 3.0 is phase-III and will not support Ethernet, ever (yet you have Una-0 line/circuit), so there is somewhat wrong in your total decnet configuration or you are trying out something unmentioned yet. My executor for Decnet 3.0 gives the following: Node Volatile Characteristics as of 16-DEC-2021 10:15:29 Executor node = 84 (SWBV84) Identification = SWBV84 DNET-3.0 R-III (63).84 Management version = V3.0.0 Incoming timer = 45 Outgoing timer = 45 NSP version = V3.2.0 Maximum links = 32 Delay factor = 64 Delay weight = 2 Inactivity timer = 60 Retransmit factor = 10 Routing version = V1.3.0 Type = routing Routing timer = 600 Maximum address = 255 Maximum circuits = 32 Maximum cost = 40 Maximum hops = 9 Maximum visits = 10 Maximum buffers = 128 Buffer size = 576 Default access = incoming and outgoing But it will not work because we only have a licemse for another version. In the id I placed area 63 as memento as it will communicate with phase-IV routers up to address 255 in that area and these nodes will assume node 84 to be present in that area. I am curious how you got an operating license to make this work or is that what creates the flaws? Reindert From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Supratim Sanyal Sent: Thursday, 16 December, 2021 01:01 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Subject: DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 (Was Re: [HECnet] Oldest VAX/VMS for VAX-11/730 on HECNET) OK, so I fired up a VAX/VMS 3.5 node and gave it the address 42 (just a coincidence, not an answer to any question). I demoted it to an end-node on a dedicated virtual ethernet adapter for the circuit with DECnet/Python. No adjacency is established. A tshark indicates DECnet-VAX V3.0 is appearing as 1.42 on the wire. Since there is no way to ask DECnet-VAX V3.0 to pretend it is 31.42, I am not sure what the next step, if any, might be to hook this up to my area on HECnet. tshark dump is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/40hvr4x6iq3esl8/tshark-31.12-31.42-DECnet-VAX-V3.… . Maybe Paul has some advice? Note: When DECnet-VAX V3.0 was configured as a L1 router, it oscillated between "circuit up" and "line fault" every few seconds. $ mc ncp show exec char Node Volatile Characteristics as of 14-DEC-1984 23:46:34 Executor node = 42 (XXXV) Identification = DECnet-VAX V3.0, VMS V3.5 Management version = V4.0.0 Incoming timer = 45 Outgoing timer = 45 NSP version = V3.2.0 Maximum links = 32 Delay factor = 80 Delay weight = 5 Inactivity timer = 60 Retransmit factor = 10 Routing version = V2.0.0 Type = nonrouting IV Routing timer = 600 Broadcast routing timer = 40 Maximum address = 1023 Maximum circuits = 16 Maximum cost = 1022 Maximum hops = 30 Maximum visits = 63 Max broadcast nonrouters = 64 Max broadcast routers = 32 Maximum buffers = 100 Buffer size = 576 Nonprivileged user id = DECNET Default access = incoming and outgoing Pipeline quota = 1200 $ mc ncp show circuit una-0 char Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-DEC-1984 23:47:01 Circuit = UNA-0 State = on Service = disabled Cost = 3 Router priority = 64 Hello timer = 15 Type = Ethernet $ mc ncp show line una-0 char Line Volatile Characteristics as of 14-DEC-1984 23:47:20 Line = UNA-0 Receive buffers = 4 Controller = normal Protocol = Ethernet Service timer = 4000 Hardware address = AA-00-04-00-2A-7C Buffer size = 1498 Regards, Supratim On 12/9/21 7:40 PM, Paul Koning wrote: On Dec 9, 2021, at 6:02 PM, Johnny Billquist <mailto:bqt at softjar.se> <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2021-12-09 23:52, Mark J. Blair wrote: So, basically like bang paths in uucp? Maybe I will play with that sometime! Yes. But depending on application, it might be that all machines have to be up and running at the moment you're trying to use it, as opposed to UUCP which was store and forward. Right. Roughly speaking, the sending application sees that there are multiple nodes, and that it uses PMR for this. It connects to the first of the nodes, object 63. It then sends it the rest of the connect information. PMR picks off the next node. If that's the last node, it connects to the requested object, otherwise again to another PMR. VMS has PMR-like capability for network file access because RMS recognizes file names with node name prefixes, so it's an automatic consequence of that feature. RSTS NFT (the application which does network file access) doesn't support PMR as far as I remember. So if you have VMS nodes around you can chain node names in file access, with RSTS-only you cannot. MAIL does it internally I think. Some vague memory says that RSTS network terminal ("set host") has PMR support, I need to look. I'll definitely add PMR to PyDECnet at some point fairly soon. paul --

3 years, 9 months

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