From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
If the MicroPDP-11/73 front panel included an LTC I would be set to get
RSX-11M+ up with 1M of RAM TONIGHT. I don't have a dedicated clock
device. :(
Easily hacked up:
http://www.dbit.com/pub/pic/kw11l.asm
I used this (on a small piece of perfboard dangling from wires wrapped
directly into the backplane and wrapped in paper) to get RSX11M+ running
on a dual-height 11/73 with a 2 MB RAM card and a CQD-220 (with a Fuji
DynaMO), all on a four-slot dual-height backplane (in a BA11-VA) which
had the wires added for Q22. An 8-pin PIC is fine (with code updated as
needed) but 16F84s were what I had on hand (along with a homemade burner).
John Wilson
D Bit
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
I didn't know it was /that/ old! I thought it was a newer box just with
an 11/03 in it!
Seriously. Those boxes were sold as 11/03s.
Oops. Well, now I know what happens when you put a VAX in one.
To be honest...the linear supply should've given it away.
Yes.
Now...I DO need a Q22 box. That leaves me a custom-made BA23 enclosure
or a BA123.
Well, there are also 3U BA11 Qbus chassis with 22-bit backplanes. And
18-bit ones...which you can turn into 22-bit ones. ;) My first
MicroVAX-I ran in one of those, back in the 1980s.
I don't have one of those or the spare money for one. ;)
If the MicroPDP-11/73 front panel included an LTC I would be set to get RSX-11M+ up with 1M of RAM TONIGHT. I don't have a dedicated clock device. :(
Only the 8186, DLV11-J, weird floppy controller thing, SCSI controller, DZQ11, DEQNA/DELQA and a PMI memory baord. None of those have an LTC. :(
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 05/20/2014 08:33 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yeah! It smoked the VAX II! It could've been user error...but how
the hell could I plug the breakout in wrong and have it smoke?!
Starting to think the backplane mayyyyy be wonky.
Oh. it's just 18-bit. It has a copyright date of March 1977.
NETCOM HV-1148.
Oh, THAT box! Shit, one doesn't take an 11/03 and shove a MicroVAX in
it. Sure, it's Qbus, but there's a decade between them, man!
I didn't know it was /that/ old! I thought it was a newer box just with
an 11/03 in it!
Seriously. Those boxes were sold as 11/03s.
To be honest...the linear supply should've given it away.
Yes.
Now...I DO need a Q22 box. That leaves me a custom-made BA23 enclosure
or a BA123.
Well, there are also 3U BA11 Qbus chassis with 22-bit backplanes. And
18-bit ones...which you can turn into 22-bit ones. ;) My first
MicroVAX-I ran in one of those, back in the 1980s.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/20/2014 08:05 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yeah! It smoked the VAX II! It could've been user error...but how
the hell could I plug the breakout in wrong and have it smoke?!
Starting to think the backplane mayyyyy be wonky.
Oh. it's just 18-bit. It has a copyright date of March 1977.
NETCOM HV-1148.
Oh, THAT box! Shit, one doesn't take an 11/03 and shove a MicroVAX in
it. Sure, it's Qbus, but there's a decade between them, man!
I didn't know it was /that/ old! I thought it was a newer box just with an 11/03 in it!
To be honest...the linear supply should've given it away.
Now...I DO need a Q22 box. That leaves me a custom-made BA23 enclosure or a BA123.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 05/20/2014 08:05 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yeah! It smoked the VAX II! It could've been user error...but how
the hell could I plug the breakout in wrong and have it smoke?!
Starting to think the backplane mayyyyy be wonky.
Oh. it's just 18-bit. It has a copyright date of March 1977.
NETCOM HV-1148.
Oh, THAT box! Shit, one doesn't take an 11/03 and shove a MicroVAX in
it. Sure, it's Qbus, but there's a decade between them, man!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yeah! It smoked the VAX II! It could've been user error...but how the hell could I plug the breakout in wrong and have it smoke?!
Starting to think the backplane mayyyyy be wonky.
Oh. it's just 18-bit. It has a copyright date of March 1977.
NETCOM HV-1148.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Wed, 21 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
...is my backplane not 22-bit?! I know very very little about it.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/clearpoint/Clearpoint_QRAM-22B_User_…
is the RAM board,
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/cmd/MAN-000420-000_CQD-420_May94.pdf
is my SCSI controller.\
I tried a MicroVAX II in this backplane earlier and it...errr started to
smoke and the little display panel just said F.
Smoked the uVAX? That's a bad sign. I would otherwise have guessed that maybe your memory card is not actually strapped to address 0 when you look at all 22 bits?
Yeah! It smoked the VAX II! It could've been user error...but how the hell could I plug the breakout in wrong and have it smoke?!
Starting to think the backplane mayyyyy be wonky.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-05-21 01:41, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
D'oh! my 1M RAM board was set to 18-bit mode, not 22-bit.
My SCSI controller seems to dislike it on 22-bit, though...
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#1.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#2.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#3.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
QBUS SINGLE WORD DMA TEST........................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
QBUS TO FIFO DMA TEST............................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
QBUS TO SCSI READ/WRITE THROUGH FIFO TEST........... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST
MEMORY.
...is my backplane not 22-bit?! I know very very little about it.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/clearpoint/Clearpoint_QRAM-22B_User_…
is the RAM board,
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/cmd/MAN-000420-000_CQD-420_May94.pdf
is my SCSI controller.\
I tried a MicroVAX II in this backplane earlier and it...errr started to
smoke and the little display panel just said F.
Smoked the uVAX? That's a bad sign. I would otherwise have guessed that maybe your memory card is not actually strapped to address 0 when you look at all 22 bits?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Tue, 20 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
D'oh! my 1M RAM board was set to 18-bit mode, not 22-bit.
My SCSI controller seems to dislike it on 22-bit, though...
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#1.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#2.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
QBUS BUS CONTROLLER TEST#3.......................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
QBUS SINGLE WORD DMA TEST........................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
QBUS TO FIFO DMA TEST............................... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
QBUS TO SCSI READ/WRITE THROUGH FIFO TEST........... FAILED
*** FAILED DUE TO UNINITIALIZED Q-BUS MAP, DMA FAILURE OR NON-EXIST MEMORY.
...is my backplane not 22-bit?! I know very very little about it.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/clearpoint/Clearpoint_QRAM-22B_User_… is the RAM board,
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/cmd/MAN-000420-000_CQD-420_May94.pdf is my SCSI controller.\
I tried a MicroVAX II in this backplane earlier and it...errr started to smoke and the little display panel just said F.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-05-21 01:11, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/20/2014 07:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Didn't you advise me against running M+ on an 11/24 for reasons
of no
split I/D space? It's not that it won't work, it's that it won't be
pleasant. M (non +) runs great on F11-based systems anyway.
I don't know (remember) what I might have said. But depending on
different things, running M+ on an 11/23 or 11/24 can be a little
painful. But running 11M in general is more painful than M+ anyway, so I
would at least recommend trying M+.
Well, I have a personal desire to run M...I ran it for many years
25-30 years ago, and I like it. I've never had much experience with M+.
I will definitely run M+ on the machines I have that are capable of
running it, though.
M+ is really nothing strange if you're used to 11M. It is just much
nicer, more capable, and generally faster...
...and won't run on my 11/34, for example. ;) (I *think*...right?)
Remember, while I do use simh quite a bit, I'm primarily based on real
hardware here, and I can't do "set cpu .." on that. ;)
Well, yes, M+ does not officially support the 11/34.
However, there was a third-party (or several) that added a 22-bit MMU to the 11/34, looking like an 11/24.
And you could of course try to generate an unsupported M+ system with 18-bit addressing. I have never tried it in practice, but there is code inside M+ for this thing...
(That said, without split I/D-space, you'll have preciously little
pool
space, but that might not be a big issue for you right here.)
I think that was why.
Yeah. Without supervisor mode and split I/D-space, you will have very
little system pool. If you are not running a bunch of things on the
system, you should still be able to survive though.
Oh, and my TCP/IP will not work on those systems.
THAT was it, I wanted to run your IP stack. I ended up setting it up
(the OS, not yet your IP stack) on an 11/44 instead.
Yeah. My IP will not run on such machines, and I have no plans on ever
implementing it. It could be done, of course, but the work is no fun,
and I have so many other more important things to waste my time on... :-)
Well I'd be one user, if you ever decide to do it. I'd then bring up
the world's first PDP-11/34-based web server!
:-)
It's just a lot of work. First and foremost, the TCP driver would need to be chopped up, since it is today somewhere around 15K, and that would need to be divided into two segments of less than 8K, and then I'd have to do the calling between the segments. Second, a few tools like IFCONFIG would have to become overlaid in order to fit into memory. That is not as much work, though.
Start by getting some "modern" hardware instead, and run proper M+. :-) And then start writing some code to play with the network from RSX. It's really easy to write clients or servers under RSX.
I've done a C library and a BASIC+2 library so far, which are really easy to use. F77 and Pascal is on the list of things to do.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
