Indeed, the memory is limited, but it doesn't much affect the Infoserver software. It's not a resource hog like modern software.
Kari
Steve Davidson wrote:
Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like:
>>> B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
.
Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based)
Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your
own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer
ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM
drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's
a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's,
the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the
Infoserver software CD like:
B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then
you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive
using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have
space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When
it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS
VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the
service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the
option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and
image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the
ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor
user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting
in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols
come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver
software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up.
It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the
software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and
ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to
check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the
host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my
Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set
that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get
access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into
the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm
very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
Fred,
I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one).
The instructions are simple.
The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow).
The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD.
When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like:
>>> B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive>
Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive.
When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver.
Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition.
Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS.
I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory.
Cheers,
Kari
Fred wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\
You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX.
If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it.
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if
For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list.
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha!
Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine.
Cheers,
Fred
--- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
-- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:26:04 -0500, you wrote:
I have looked at this first hand. We are still missing something. For
some reason the ISL is unable to find what it needs to complete the
process. The other thing that bothers me is how slow the whole
environment responds to this.
[...]
One of the problems is that the InfoServer system on VMS is *not* the
same as the InfoServer hardware. The documentation for the hardware
platform was/is much superior to that of the software solution. I
suspect that we are missing something in the software scenario that
isn't even an issue in the hardware one.
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/ba322_90045/apcs01.html says:
InfoServer network booting is supported for OpenVMS installations and
upgrades on any OpenVMS Alpha system and on any Integrity servers that
support OpenVMS , and does NOT mention VAX systems.
I'm just wondering if this is because the VAX architecture is no longer
supported at large or because the host-based Infoserver is not able to
perform ISL for VAXen. Just a speculation: ISL_SVAX sends a strange LAD/LAST
request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits
there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\
It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog
between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if
there are any significant differences in the initial request packets...
A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS
from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-)
Thanks,
G.
P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very
dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P
Fred,
My link to MIM is out-to-lunch/out-on-loan. At the moment I can't get
to anywhere on HECnet. I will reconnect as soon as the link is
restored.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Fred
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 13:08
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Steve Davidson wrote:
The cluster/satellite connection is always an option and I have
suggested it to Fred more than a few times (sorry Fred), but it still
doesn't explain the problem. We though we had an answer late last
night
but to no avail.
That's OK, a colleague of mine suggested the same thing too, but I was
determined to get the Infoserver to work ... (still am as I like the
concept)
I do like Gerry's idea of using a SIMH VAX to get things up and running,
booting the physical VAX as a satellite which would then pose no risk to
MISER.
FRUGAL:: is now turned on and you can access the console if you wish.
Fred
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Steve Davidson wrote:
The cluster/satellite connection is always an option and I have
suggested it to Fred more than a few times (sorry Fred), but it still
doesn't explain the problem. We though we had an answer late last night
but to no avail.
That's OK, a colleague of mine suggested the same thing too, but I was determined to get the Infoserver to work ... (still am as I like the concept)
I do like Gerry's idea of using a SIMH VAX to get things up and running, booting the physical VAX as a satellite which would then pose no risk to MISER.
FRUGAL:: is now turned on and you can access the console if you wish.
Fred
Gerry,
I have looked at this first hand. We are still missing something. For
some reason the ISL is unable to find what it needs to complete the
process. The other thing that bothers me is how slow the whole
environment responds to this. Fred and I have been trying to find where
the bottleneck is. I will be testing this on my network later today to
see what he may be running into.
The cluster/satellite connection is always an option and I have
suggested it to Fred more than a few times (sorry Fred), but it still
doesn't explain the problem. We though we had an answer late last night
but to no avail.
One of the problems is that the InfoServer system on VMS is *not* the
same as the InfoServer hardware. The documentation for the hardware
platform was/is much superior to that of the software solution. I
suspect that we are missing something in the software scenario that
isn't even an issue in the hardware one.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of gerry77 at mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 04:45
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:28 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
%ISL-F-BADOPEN, unable to locate SYSBOOT
?06 HLT INST
PC= 000067C4 PSL= 041F0000
So at this point it eliminates LDDRIVER being part of the problem.
I'm starting to think that either the host-based Infoserver does not
support
VAX network installation or the service is somehow not properly
configured.
Please, excuse me if I'll write obvious things, but...
The Infoserver help says that the volume to be served has to be mounted
/SYSTEM and either /NOWRITE or /FOREIGN, have you done that?
You can see the connected clients by useing the Infoserver management
command:
Infoserver> show last
This command does not work on my host-based Infoserver.
On the host-based thing you have to do something like (I suppose):
$ LASTCP == "$SYS$SYSTEM:ESS$LASTCP"
$ LASTCP SHOW CLIENTS
See also:
$ HELP @ESS$LASTCPHELP
$ HELP @ESS$INFOSERVER
Another option would be to turn MISER into a cluster (temporarily) and
satellite boot the VAX, but I'd want to take an /IMAGE backup of MISER
first as I don't want to wreck him ... I'd cry if I lost all of my
customizations ... :)
For this purpose you may also want to use a SIMH emulated VAX or create
an
image of the installation CD-ROM volume into another hard disk and
install
the latter into the target machine, then boot from it. :-)
HTH,
G.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:28 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
%ISL-F-BADOPEN, unable to locate SYSBOOT
?06 HLT INST
PC= 000067C4 PSL= 041F0000
So at this point it eliminates LDDRIVER being part of the problem.
I'm starting to think that either the host-based Infoserver does not support
VAX network installation or the service is somehow not properly configured.
Please, excuse me if I'll write obvious things, but...
The Infoserver help says that the volume to be served has to be mounted
/SYSTEM and either /NOWRITE or /FOREIGN, have you done that?
You can see the connected clients by useing the Infoserver management
command:
Infoserver> show last
This command does not work on my host-based Infoserver.
On the host-based thing you have to do something like (I suppose):
$ LASTCP == "$SYS$SYSTEM:ESS$LASTCP"
$ LASTCP SHOW CLIENTS
See also:
$ HELP @ESS$LASTCPHELP
$ HELP @ESS$INFOSERVER
Another option would be to turn MISER into a cluster (temporarily) and
satellite boot the VAX, but I'd want to take an /IMAGE backup of MISER
first as I don't want to wreck him ... I'd cry if I lost all of my
customizations ... :)
For this purpose you may also want to use a SIMH emulated VAX or create an
image of the installation CD-ROM volume into another hard disk and install
the latter into the target machine, then boot from it. :-)
HTH,
G.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009, Kari Uusim ki wrote:
Hi Kari, all ...
Here is the latest update:
Removed old broken CDROM from MISER, replaced with a known good one. Mounted VAX distribution in CDROM drive, created Infoserver service pointing to this physical drive.
MOP booted the VAX, looked for this service, tried to select this service ...
Still:
%ISL-F-BADOPEN, unable to locate SYSBOOT
?06 HLT INST
PC= 000067C4 PSL= 041F0000
So at this point it eliminates LDDRIVER being part of the problem.
When you have selected the Infoserver service where you have the distribution, does is show up as a (LAST) connection on the Infoserver?
I do not believe so. After selecting the service (it does find it if you make it look)
InfoServer> show sessions/ALL
VAXVMS073 [ODS-2] _MISER$DKA100:
According to the doc, it should say [1 Connection] to the right of the device name.
Have you checked that the SYSBOOT.EXE is continuous?
It is on the CD - I am guessing this is moot now since I'm now using a physical CD being served by my Alpha.
You can see the connected clients by useing the Infoserver management
command:
Infoserver> show last
This command does not work on my host-based Infoserver.
Another option would be to turn MISER into a cluster (temporarily) and satellite boot the VAX, but I'd want to take an /IMAGE backup of MISER first as I don't want to wreck him ... I'd cry if I lost all of my customizations ... :)
Thanks,
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
