Yes, I would say that copying the nodename database from MIM is the
canonical way of having an updated and "correct" nodename database.
Correct is somewhat misleading perhaps, as their isn't anything
incorrect with whatever nodename database you want to use.
But for a "uniform" view of nodenames on HECnet, MIM is the source.
And for you VMS guys out there, you should get a copy by typing (and the
NCP prompt)
"COPY KNOWN NODES FROM MIM TO BOTH"
Johnny
Sampsa Laine wrote:
I periodically COPY KNOWN NODES FROM MIM on all my machines, I consider MIM to be the canonical host list. Not sure if this is correct but has worked for me so far.
Sampsa
On 3 Dec 2009, at 19:06, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:53:31 -0800, you wrote:
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
I'd have to check the docs, but IIRC the node list doesn't get transmitted
to different areas. Area routers exchange among themselves infos about their
area reachability and answer yes or not to the reachability of any node
under their scope (i.e. in their area), but do not transfer the whole area
contents to other nodes.
To see new nodes in SHOW KNOWN NODES you'll have to do a COPY KNOWN NODES
from a node that already knows the nodes you are interested in, then you'll
see all the nodes on a reachable area marked as reachable (even if the
specific node is powered off).
But do not take for granted this whole theory. :-)
G.
Usual disclaimer: Excuse my English: it's not my native language.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Node list don't even get transmitted within the same area.
Node names are local to each machine, and it is perfectly valid to have
different names for the same node number on different machines (although
perhaps confusing).
All routers transmit a connectivity information packet to every other
node within the same area. All area routers also transmit an area
connectivity packet to other area routers.
But these are just with node numbers, there are no node names
transmitted in these.
So it's a two level hierarchy. End nodes knows where the closest level
one router is (must have direct connection to it). All area one routers
knows the exact layout of their own area, and knows the shortest path to
any node within the area. Level one routers also knows where the closest
level two (area) router is. Level two routers knows the exact layout of
all level two routers, and the shortest path to any other level two
router (and thus any area).
Obviously, this means that all level one routers in one area must be
connected to all other routers within that same area, by just passing
through other level one routers.
And all level two routers must be connected (directly) to all other
level two routers by just going through level two routers.
Johnny
gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:53:31 -0800, you wrote:
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
I'd have to check the docs, but IIRC the node list doesn't get transmitted
to different areas. Area routers exchange among themselves infos about their
area reachability and answer yes or not to the reachability of any node
under their scope (i.e. in their area), but do not transfer the whole area
contents to other nodes.
To see new nodes in SHOW KNOWN NODES you'll have to do a COPY KNOWN NODES
from a node that already knows the nodes you are interested in, then you'll
see all the nodes on a reachable area marked as reachable (even if the
specific node is powered off).
But do not take for granted this whole theory. :-)
G.
Usual disclaimer: Excuse my English: it's not my native language.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
That would be expected when you haven't defined any nodenames for nodes
in area 42.
As a reminder to everyone. DECnet phase IV don't have any centralized
nodename database. Every machine has his own nodename database.
And you need to update it occasionally if you want to have any new nodes
appear in there.
Otherwise you might just see node numbers, without any node names
associated with them. And such nodes are not "known". :-)
Johnny
Sampsa Laine wrote:
Well GORVAX can see area 42 but no nodes in it..
CHIMPY$ ncp tell gorvax show known areas
Known Area Volatile Summary as of 3-DEC-2009 19:57:20
Area State Circuit Next node to area
1 reachable 1.400 (GORVAX)
2 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
3 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
11 reachable QNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 reachable QNA-0 19.11 (AGENA)
42 reachable QNA-0 42.1
51 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
59 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
60 reachable QNA-0 60.664 (PDXVAX)
On 3 Dec 2009, at 18:53, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2009-12-03, at 10:49 AM, gerry77 at mail.com <mailto:gerry77 at mail.com> wrote:
At the moment I cannot remember if @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM asks something
about configuring a node as an area router, but I'm assuming that it doesn't
ask anything, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. :-)
As a starting point you may just type the following:
$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:NCP
NCP> SET EXECUTOR STATE SHUT
NCP> DEFINE EXECUTOR TYPE AREA
NCP> EXIT
$ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET
If I'm not wrong, this should be enough to transform your node into an area
router; then you may want to revise your configuration to tune it better.
You are correct - NETCONFIG doesn't ask about level 1 or 2 - just whether you're a router or not. Your commands (which I'm sure I tried some time during the last 24 hours, but I'm not sure) followed by a reboot seems to have fixed it. Thanks!
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
At least there's some connectivity. I'll keep working. Thanks for the help.
Ian.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2009-12-03, at 10:49 AM, gerry77 at mail.com <mailto:gerry77 at mail.com> wrote:
At the moment I cannot remember if @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM asks something
about configuring a node as an area router, but I'm assuming that it doesn't
ask anything, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. :-)
As a starting point you may just type the following:
$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:NCP
NCP> SET EXECUTOR STATE SHUT
NCP> DEFINE EXECUTOR TYPE AREA
NCP> EXIT
$ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET
If I'm not wrong, this should be enough to transform your node into an area
router; then you may want to revise your configuration to tune it better.
You are correct - NETCONFIG doesn't ask about level 1 or 2 - just whether you're a router or not. Your commands (which I'm sure I tried some time during the last 24 hours, but I'm not sure) followed by a reboot seems to have fixed it. Thanks!
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
At least there's some connectivity. I'll keep working. Thanks for the help.
The show known nodes command of course depend on what you mean by known
nodes... :-)
(See more in my other replies...)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:53:31 -0800, you wrote:
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
I'd have to check the docs, but IIRC the node list doesn't get transmitted
to different areas. Area routers exchange among themselves infos about their
area reachability and answer yes or not to the reachability of any node
under their scope (i.e. in their area), but do not transfer the whole area
contents to other nodes.
To see new nodes in SHOW KNOWN NODES you'll have to do a COPY KNOWN NODES
from a node that already knows the nodes you are interested in, then you'll
see all the nodes on a reachable area marked as reachable (even if the
specific node is powered off).
But do not take for granted this whole theory. :-)
G.
Usual disclaimer: Excuse my English: it's not my native language.
.
The DECnet routing works just as Gerry told.
Area routers exchange area information among themselves by sending router hello's. Endnodes inform the area routers about their existence by sending endnode hello's and L1 and L2 routers send router hello's which also the endnodes listen to.
All the routing information is sent by multicasting.
So all nodes learn the needed information from the network without any operator efforts.
That is true if the network is configured by the rules. :)
Kari
gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:16:27 -0800, you wrote:
with DECnet Phase IV installed. I've been going through every document I can find, but I can't find anything that talks about setting up a level 2 (area) router. What do I have to do different from a normal (level 1) router? I'd appreciate any pointers. Let me know if you'd like to see any diagnostic output.
At the moment I cannot remember if @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM asks something
about configuring a node as an area router, but I'm assuming that it doesn't
ask anything, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. :-)
As a starting point you may just type the following:
$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:NCP
NCP> SET EXECUTOR STATE SHUT
NCP> DEFINE EXECUTOR TYPE AREA
NCP> EXIT
$ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET
If I'm not wrong, this should be enough to transform your node into an area
router; then you may want to revise your configuration to tune it better.
HTH, :-)
G.
.
Yes, quite so.
The NETCONFIG.COM asks only if you want to configure a router or end node. When it asks that you should answer that you want to run the node as a router, but before you start DECnet, you should do the DEFINE statement as in Gerry's message.
It takes some time before the router hello's and endnode hello's traverse the network, but after a while you should see the other areas from your Area router node and others should see your area.
Regards,
Kari
I periodically COPY KNOWN NODES FROM MIM on all my machines, I consider MIM to be the canonical host list. Not sure if this is correct but has worked for me so far.
Sampsa
On 3 Dec 2009, at 19:06, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:53:31 -0800, you wrote:
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
I'd have to check the docs, but IIRC the node list doesn't get transmitted
to different areas. Area routers exchange among themselves infos about their
area reachability and answer yes or not to the reachability of any node
under their scope (i.e. in their area), but do not transfer the whole area
contents to other nodes.
To see new nodes in SHOW KNOWN NODES you'll have to do a COPY KNOWN NODES
from a node that already knows the nodes you are interested in, then you'll
see all the nodes on a reachable area marked as reachable (even if the
specific node is powered off).
But do not take for granted this whole theory. :-)
G.
Usual disclaimer: Excuse my English: it's not my native language.
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:53:31 -0800, you wrote:
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't
showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
I'd have to check the docs, but IIRC the node list doesn't get transmitted
to different areas. Area routers exchange among themselves infos about their
area reachability and answer yes or not to the reachability of any node
under their scope (i.e. in their area), but do not transfer the whole area
contents to other nodes.
To see new nodes in SHOW KNOWN NODES you'll have to do a COPY KNOWN NODES
from a node that already knows the nodes you are interested in, then you'll
see all the nodes on a reachable area marked as reachable (even if the
specific node is powered off).
But do not take for granted this whole theory. :-)
G.
Usual disclaimer: Excuse my English: it's not my native language.
The nodes that I have powered up at the moment are:
42.1 CANADA (the area router)
42.2 DAFFY
I was able to do a COPY KNOWN NODES FROM 1.400 which populated my node list. Is this something I need to do manually, or is this an automatic process that I don't have set up properly?
Ian.
On 2009-12-03, at 10:56 AM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Well GORVAX can see area 42 but no nodes in it..
CHIMPY$ ncp tell gorvax show known areas
Known Area Volatile Summary as of 3-DEC-2009 19:57:20
Area State Circuit Next node to area
1 reachable 1.400 (GORVAX)
2 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
3 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
11 reachable QNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 reachable QNA-0 19.11 (AGENA)
42 reachable QNA-0 42.1
51 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
59 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
60 reachable QNA-0 60.664 (PDXVAX)
On 3 Dec 2009, at 18:53, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2009-12-03, at 10:49 AM, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
At the moment I cannot remember if @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM asks something
about configuring a node as an area router, but I'm assuming that it doesn't
ask anything, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. :-)
As a starting point you may just type the following:
$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:NCP
NCP> SET EXECUTOR STATE SHUT
NCP> DEFINE EXECUTOR TYPE AREA
NCP> EXIT
$ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET
If I'm not wrong, this should be enough to transform your node into an area
router; then you may want to revise your configuration to tune it better.
You are correct - NETCONFIG doesn't ask about level 1 or 2 - just whether you're a router or not. Your commands (which I'm sure I tried some time during the last 24 hours, but I'm not sure) followed by a reboot seems to have fixed it. Thanks!
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
At least there's some connectivity. I'll keep working. Thanks for the help.
Ian.
---
Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here
Makes sense, it shows 42.1 as next node (but no name, which is legal though normally you d load names for each defined address).
paul
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:58 PM To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECnet area router configuration
I lie - I can do a SET HOST to 42.1.
Sampsa
On 3 Dec 2009, at 18:56, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Well GORVAX can see area 42 but no nodes in it..
CHIMPY$ ncp tell gorvax show known areas
Known Area Volatile Summary as of 3-DEC-2009 19:57:20
Area State Circuit Next node to area
1 reachable 1.400 (GORVAX)
2 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
3 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
11 reachable QNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 reachable QNA-0 19.11 (AGENA)
42 reachable QNA-0 42.1
51 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
59 reachable TCP-0-0 2.17 (CHARON)
60 reachable QNA-0 60.664 (PDXVAX)
On 3 Dec 2009, at 18:53, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2009-12-03, at 10:49 AM, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
At the moment I cannot remember if @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG.COM asks something about configuring a node as an area router, but I'm assuming that it doesn't ask anything, or you wouldn't be here asking for help. :-) As a starting point you may just type the following: $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:NCP NCP> SET EXECUTOR STATE SHUT NCP> DEFINE EXECUTOR TYPE AREA NCP> EXIT $ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET If I'm not wrong, this should be enough to transform your node into an area router; then you may want to revise your configuration to tune it better.
You are correct - NETCONFIG doesn't ask about level 1 or 2 - just whether you're a router or not. Your commands (which I'm sure I tried some time during the last 24 hours, but I'm not sure) followed by a reboot seems to have fixed it. Thanks!
SHOW KNOWN AREAS is showing 9 areas, which is good. SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing any new nodes though. And a TELL 1.400 SHOW KNOWN NODES isn't showing my nodes yet. (I'm area 42 if you start seeing it in the node list).
At least there's some connectivity. I'll keep working. Thanks for the help.
Ian.
