Xenophobia is not the same as lack of experience. The VMS development team in the USA is extinct. The guys in India are first rate software engineers (they ought to be to find their way in the VMS codebase) but their perspective on how the os should behave and what they observe is markedly different. Read the discussion in comp.os.vms on changes in the DIRECTORY command.
The Indian team made changes that are probably more in line with newer commands but broke old code that had been stable for decades.
The bottomline is that I expect my alphas to stay on 8.3, probably as long as the VAXes will remain on 7.3.
I have no IA64 systems (luckily, reading Sampsas problems :-) so no ideas there other than that IA64/VMS 8.3 is the production quality release at this point in time.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:54:03
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] DECUS/freeware archive
On 24/08/11 18:28, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mark,
If you still have access to the HP patch database then I'd suggest these OS versions:
VAX/VMS 7.3
Alpha/VMS. 7.3.
7.3-2
8.3
8.4
IA64/VMS. 8.3
8.4
TCP/IP : all versions -please-
The reasoning behind the VMS versions is simple. The AXP variants are the "stable" ones, though I have my doubts regarding 8.4. I guess that 7.3-2 and 8.3 cover a substantial fraction of all hobbyist sites.
Hobbyists with a VAX run everything for fun but if the VAX is still used for serious work it'll run 7.3.
I'm clueless about what is en vogue in Itanium land.
Personally I'd like to install the latest patches for the IP stack.
Hans
Hans,
I'll bear your comments in mind thanks...
When I spoke to Stephen Hoffman about which version of Alpha OpenVMS to
install I was told to stick to 8.3 unless I wanted to get into a large
amount of patching. I think the quality of 8.4 probably reflects the
wholesale move of OpenVMS development from the USA to India. Please
don't take that as xenophobia - merely a reflection on the loss of a
good deal of long-time VMS talent. Hopefully future releases will
benefit from the increasing knowledge of the new team.
IA64 VMS, AFAIK, is a similar scenario.
Regards, Mark
On 24/08/11 18:28, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mark,
If you still have access to the HP patch database then I'd suggest these OS versions:
VAX/VMS 7.3
Alpha/VMS. 7.3.
7.3-2
8.3
8.4
IA64/VMS. 8.3
8.4
TCP/IP : all versions -please-
The reasoning behind the VMS versions is simple. The AXP variants are the "stable" ones, though I have my doubts regarding 8.4. I guess that 7.3-2 and 8.3 cover a substantial fraction of all hobbyist sites.
Hobbyists with a VAX run everything for fun but if the VAX is still used for serious work it'll run 7.3.
I'm clueless about what is en vogue in Itanium land.
Personally I'd like to install the latest patches for the IP stack.
Hans
Hans,
I'll bear your comments in mind thanks...
When I spoke to Stephen Hoffman about which version of Alpha OpenVMS to install I was told to stick to 8.3 unless I wanted to get into a large amount of patching. I think the quality of 8.4 probably reflects the wholesale move of OpenVMS development from the USA to India. Please don't take that as xenophobia - merely a reflection on the loss of a good deal of long-time VMS talent. Hopefully future releases will benefit from the increasing knowledge of the new team.
IA64 VMS, AFAIK, is a similar scenario.
Regards, Mark
Mark,
If you still have access to the HP patch database then I'd suggest these OS versions:
VAX/VMS 7.3
Alpha/VMS. 7.3.
7.3-2
8.3
8.4
IA64/VMS. 8.3
8.4
TCP/IP : all versions -please-
The reasoning behind the VMS versions is simple. The AXP variants are the "stable" ones, though I have my doubts regarding 8.4. I guess that 7.3-2 and 8.3 cover a substantial fraction of all hobbyist sites.
Hobbyists with a VAX run everything for fun but if the VAX is still used for serious work it'll run 7.3.
I'm clueless about what is en vogue in Itanium land.
Personally I'd like to install the latest patches for the IP stack.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Mark Wickens
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] DECUS/freeware archive
Verzonden: 24 augustus 2011 18:31
Jur has just posted back my hard drive with his entire DECUS & freeware
archive - hopefully I can make this available to the HECnet community in
its entirety via the magic of decnet...
I'm also trying to sort out my HP patch database access, so if there are
any requests feel free to ask. I am planning on pulling down all patches
for OpenVMS VAX 7.3.1, Alpha 8.3 and IA64 8.3-1H1.
Regards, Mark.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
Jur has just posted back my hard drive with his entire DECUS & freeware archive - hopefully I can make this available to the HECnet community in its entirety via the magic of decnet...
I'm also trying to sort out my HP patch database access, so if there are any requests feel free to ask. I am planning on pulling down all patches for OpenVMS VAX 7.3.1, Alpha 8.3 and IA64 8.3-1H1.
Regards, Mark.
On 2011-08-24 03:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
A bit surprised, since the RX01 is a really small device, and squeezing in RT-11, in addition to VMB, as a bare minimum needed for a system, is something of a miracle.
RT-11 could fit on tiny things. I remember V2 fitting with lots of room to spare on a DECnet (TU56 -- 578 kbytes). And if memory serves I could fit in (SJ flavor) along with Basic on an RC11 (128 kbytes), on our Physics department 11/20.
Yes, but VMB takes quite some space, and an RX01 is only 256 Kbytes...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
A bit surprised, since the RX01 is a really small device, and squeezing in RT-11, in addition to VMB, as a bare minimum needed for a system, is something of a miracle.
RT-11 could fit on tiny things. I remember V2 fitting with lots of room to spare on a DECnet (TU56 -- 578 kbytes). And if memory serves I could fit in (SJ flavor) along with Basic on an RC11 (128 kbytes), on our Physics department 11/20.
paul
RK06/RK07 were supported on the VAX-11/780. I used them at DEC in Parker St., Maynard, MA in 1980.
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:50
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2011-08-23 19:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I can't remember whether the RK05 was supported by VMS?
I don't think it was. Neither was the RK06/RK07, but I believe it shipped with a driver for those.
Johnny
I think it was a DECUS submitted driver.
RK06/RK07's were supported at one time on the RK611 IIRC.
I think they were on the first 11/780's back in the late '70's. Minimum 11/780 config I saw on DECnotes at one time was an RK06/RK07 with 128MB of Memory used for minimum price Vax sales.
Never saw real ones in the field with smaller disks than an RM03 as the main disk.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bill
Johnny,
Remember that we are talking about 1977-1980 (or so) with version 3x.
RT-11 with a few drivers and utilities fits just fine on an RX01. While
not very fast it was so much better than the TU-58!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-24 02:21, Steve Davidson wrote:
I'm sure.
A bit surprised, since the RX01 is a really small device, and squeezing
in RT-11, in addition to VMB, as a bare minimum needed for a system, is
something of a miracle.
Hmm, do anyone have an RX01 image for the VAX-11/78x available online?
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:07
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-24 01:45, Steve Davidson wrote:
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
Are you sure about the RT-11 part? I think it just used the RT-11 file
system, but the actual thing running inside was something small and
dedicated.
The 86x0 machines FE runs RT-11, however. You can even get into the
RT-11 environment on the machine, and use the RT-11 programs in there.
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01
and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywrite
r
-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt
_
1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2011-08-23 19:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I can't remember whether the RK05 was supported by VMS?
I don't think it was. Neither was the RK06/RK07, but I believe it shipped with a driver for those.
Johnny
I think it was a DECUS submitted driver.
RK06/RK07's were supported at one time on the RK611 IIRC.
I think they were on the first 11/780's back in the late '70's. Minimum 11/780 config I saw on DECnotes at one time was an RK06/RK07 with 128MB of Memory used for minimum price Vax sales.
Never saw real ones in the field with smaller disks than an RM03 as the main disk.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bill
On 2011-08-24 02:21, Steve Davidson wrote:
I'm sure.
A bit surprised, since the RX01 is a really small device, and squeezing in RT-11, in addition to VMB, as a bare minimum needed for a system, is something of a miracle.
Hmm, do anyone have an RX01 image for the VAX-11/78x available online?
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:07
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-24 01:45, Steve Davidson wrote:
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
Are you sure about the RT-11 part? I think it just used the RT-11 file
system, but the actual thing running inside was something small and
dedicated.
The 86x0 machines FE runs RT-11, however. You can even get into the
RT-11 environment on the machine, and use the RT-11 programs in there.
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01 and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter
-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt_
1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
