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DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

What I thought was this: all DECnet parameters are set to default values. The other DECnet nodes probably also. Which is good because messing with most parameters won't improve performance. The next step is that DECnet is well implemented across DEC o/s'es. TOPS is no exception to that rule so it's not the first place to start investigating. Though do try alt.sys.pdp10 or alt.sys.folklore. So what remains is the host system. Suspect #1 is pcap. Is the package recent? I can't think of parameters to change here. On linux you might check network security parameters and whether pcap needs tweaking of linux paramters. ------Origineel bericht------ Van: gerry77 at mail.com Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10) Verzonden: 31 augustus 2011 15:05 On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:54:12 +0000, you wrote: The paramters you posted are aal defaults except for the node name aand address, right? Yes. Anyway I tried also with some modified parameters we use on other nodes, namely executor block size and buffer size, but nothing changed. The "problem" is that most of those parameters are "embedded" into the monitor, so to change them the monitor has to be rebuilt every time. Non particularly diffucult, but quite time-consuming. Moreover they have names like %RTBSZ and %DLBSZ, and is not always so easy to discover which NCP/DECnet parameter corresponds to which internal monitor variable... :) - have a look at the exec, line and circuit counters In my previous message I forgot to mention that all the error-related counters are at zero, so I thought not to paste them here. - examine the host IP characteristics and (if present) those of the winpcap package installed on the host Specifically, what characteristics are you thinking about? I have no idea about whatever I could check at host and pcap (on Linux) level. Thanks for your time, :) G. Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel

14 years

DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

You have a DECnet key (not a PAK!) for DECnet on a pre V5.0 VMS system, rigjt? ------Origineel bericht------ Van: gerry77 at mail.com Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10) Verzonden: 31 augustus 2011 15:05 On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:58:53 +0200, you wrote: On PDP:s (RSX11-Mplus) and VAX/VMS, C-TERM (eg. SET HOST) is usually sort of "sluggy". Oh well, it depends! :) Usually our DECnet connections are very smooth, at least between VMS nodes; VAX, Alpha and Itanium, no matter which VMS version. In Italy we say that it glides (so well that) it seems greasy. :P LAT (eg SET TERM/LAT) is a protocol developed to cope with terminals character by character communication at first hand! I don't know if LAT is available to your 10-system, though, but if it is, use that for terminal traffic as far as possible. Yes, LAT is available, but I have other problems with it. As soon as I'll be able to tackle it, I'll try also that path. TOPS-10 is a though "game"... Besides, what version of VMS, on what hardware? I've heard birds singing of problems combining modern VMS-DECnet with older implementations in other machines... By now I have tried VMS 7.2 on VAX and 8.3 on Alpha. Now I'm waiting to try VMS 4.7 on the same Ethernet segment as the TOPS-10 node, then I will report on results! :) Thanks, G. Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel

14 years

Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS?

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 31/08/11 13:54, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: The converter from DB9 (PC style) to MMJ is called an H8571-J The -J is very important since other H8571's will do different things. Hans ------Origineel bericht------ Van: Sampsa Laine Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS? Verzonden: 31 augustus 2011 14:24 Is it possible to change the OPA0: (on reboot, so it sticks) from serial to graphics on an AS800 through VMS? Sampsa Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel Sampsa, consider investing in a DECserver... then you can have all your consoles available over ethernet.

14 years

DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by bqt＠softjar.se

(I'll top-post this one...) SET HOST from a VMS system implies you use CTERM. CTERM is a horrible protocol, and only really works fine between VMS systems. Using it to connect to anything else usually means you can expect all kind of behavior and performance problems. It might be something else, but I would suspect CTERM as such first and foremost. Johnny On 2011-08-31 02:20, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: Dear All, I'm in need of some suggestions to improve DECnet performance of a TOPS-10 monitor running on KLH10. I'd like a lot to hear from you even if you do not know or run that specific system or configuration. When used locally at the CTY (Console terminal), the system response is very fast and smooth, so I'd tend to exclude emulator problems and such. Instead, when used from a remotely connected terminal (e.g. from VMS via SET HOST), it appears very sluggish: single character echo is very poor and output from the system fits and starts all the time. Output from programs is very fast for some hundreds lines, then stops briefly, then again appears almost instantly, and so on, like in bursts. Anyway, while the overall bulk data performance can be considered absolutely acceptable, the char-by-char responsiveness, e.g. typing interactive commands at the monitor prompt, is horrible: I type "D", "I", "R", and nothing happens, then I type "E" and "DIRE" suddenly appears... The TOPS-10 system has plenty of free core (both virtual and physical), free disk space, and free CPU, so it shouldn't be an OS issue in itself. Probably the most likely cause of this problem lies in some DECnet parameter that needs some tweaking, but I do not know which one... Have you ever had any experience with some ancient Digital OS having poor DECnet performance as described? And how did you solve that, or at least improve it? Here are some (maybe) interesting bits: Request # 1; Show Executor Node Characteristics Completed Executor Node = 1.1010 (DIECI) Identification = DECnet-10 Version 4.0 Management Version = 4.0.0 Loop Count = 1 Loop Length = 127 Loop With = Mixed Incoming Timer = 30 Outgoing Timer = 60 NSP Version = 4.0.0 Maximum Links = 65535 Delay Factor = 48 Delay Weight = 10 Inactivity Timer = 120 Retransmit Factor = 10 Routing Version = 2.0.0 Type = Nonrouting IV Routing Timer = 600 Broadcast Routing Timer = 40 Maximum Address = 1023 Maximum Circuits = 20 Maximum Cost = 100 Maximum Hops = 16 Maximum Visits = 20 Maximum Broadcast Nonrouters = 64 Maximum Broadcast Routers = 32 Maximum Buffers = 80 Buffer Size = 576 Segment Buffer Size = 576 Request # 5; Show Line Characteristics Completed Line = ETH-0 Receive Buffers = 6 Controller = Normal Protocol = Ethernet Hardware Address = AA 00 04 00 F2 07 Receive buffer size = 576 Request # 7; Show Circuit Characteristics Completed Circuit = ETH-0 Cost = 1 Maximum Routers = 16 Router Priority = 5 Hello Timer = 90 Type = Ethernet I'll be grateful for any suggestion! :) G. -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

14 years

DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:58:53 +0200, you wrote: On PDP:s (RSX11-Mplus) and VAX/VMS, C-TERM (eg. SET HOST) is usually sort of "sluggy". Oh well, it depends! :) Usually our DECnet connections are very smooth, at least between VMS nodes; VAX, Alpha and Itanium, no matter which VMS version. In Italy we say that it glides (so well that) it seems greasy. :P LAT (eg SET TERM/LAT) is a protocol developed to cope with terminals character by character communication at first hand! I don't know if LAT is available to your 10-system, though, but if it is, use that for terminal traffic as far as possible. Yes, LAT is available, but I have other problems with it. As soon as I'll be able to tackle it, I'll try also that path. TOPS-10 is a though "game"... Besides, what version of VMS, on what hardware? I've heard birds singing of problems combining modern VMS-DECnet with older implementations in other machines... By now I have tried VMS 7.2 on VAX and 8.3 on Alpha. Now I'm waiting to try VMS 4.7 on the same Ethernet segment as the TOPS-10 node, then I will report on results! :) Thanks, G.

14 years

DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:54:12 +0000, you wrote: The paramters you posted are aal defaults except for the node name aand address, right? Yes. Anyway I tried also with some modified parameters we use on other nodes, namely executor block size and buffer size, but nothing changed. The "problem" is that most of those parameters are "embedded" into the monitor, so to change them the monitor has to be rebuilt every time. Non particularly diffucult, but quite time-consuming. Moreover they have names like %RTBSZ and %DLBSZ, and is not always so easy to discover which NCP/DECnet parameter corresponds to which internal monitor variable... :) - have a look at the exec, line and circuit counters In my previous message I forgot to mention that all the error-related counters are at zero, so I thought not to paste them here. - examine the host IP characteristics and (if present) those of the winpcap package installed on the host Specifically, what characteristics are you thinking about? I have no idea about whatever I could check at host and pcap (on Linux) level. Thanks for your time, :) G.

14 years

Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS?

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

The converter from DB9 (PC style) to MMJ is called an H8571-J The -J is very important since other H8571's will do different things. Hans ------Origineel bericht------ Van: Sampsa Laine Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS? Verzonden: 31 augustus 2011 14:24 Is it possible to change the OPA0: (on reboot, so it sticks) from serial to graphics on an AS800 through VMS? Sampsa Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel

14 years

Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS?

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Not that I know, Sampsa. All I know is this srm command : set console graphics And its counterpart: set console serial if you have no MMJ plug, isn't it possible to use a telephone jack instead? I can make an MMJ to MMJ cable for you if you need one. All you need then is an MMJ to female DB9 jack. Hans ------Origineel bericht------ Van: Sampsa Laine Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS? Verzonden: 31 augustus 2011 14:24 Is it possible to change the OPA0: (on reboot, so it sticks) from serial to graphics on an AS800 through VMS? Sampsa Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel

14 years

Changing console from serial to graphics on AS800 from VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Is it possible to change the OPA0: (on reboot, so it sticks) from serial to graphics on an AS800 through VMS? Sampsa

14 years

DECnet performance problems (on TOPS-10)

by ahling＠eadc.se

Sorry for not being "expertly experienced on tops-10" (I know others who are... ;-) On PDP:s (RSX11-Mplus) and VAX/VMS, C-TERM (eg. SET HOST) is usually sort of "sluggy". LAT (eg SET TERM/LAT) is a protocol developed to cope with terminals character by character communication at first hand! I don't know if LAT is available to your 10-system, though, but if it is, use that for terminal traffic as far as possible. Besides, what version of VMS, on what hardware? I've heard birds singing of problems combining modern VMS-DECnet with older implementations in other machines... All best, G ran On 2011-08-31 02:20, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: Dear All, I'm in need of some suggestions to improve DECnet performance of a TOPS-10 monitor running on KLH10. I'd like a lot to hear from you even if you do not know or run that specific system or configuration. When used locally at the CTY (Console terminal), the system response is very fast and smooth, so I'd tend to exclude emulator problems and such. Instead, when used from a remotely connected terminal (e.g. from VMS via SET HOST), it appears very sluggish: single character echo is very poor and output from the system fits and starts all the time. Output from programs is very fast for some hundreds lines, then stops briefly, then again appears almost instantly, and so on, like in bursts. Anyway, while the overall bulk data performance can be considered absolutely acceptable, the char-by-char responsiveness, e.g. typing interactive commands at the monitor prompt, is horrible: I type "D", "I", "R", and nothing happens, then I type "E" and "DIRE" suddenly appears... The TOPS-10 system has plenty of free core (both virtual and physical), free disk space, and free CPU, so it shouldn't be an OS issue in itself. Probably the most likely cause of this problem lies in some DECnet parameter that needs some tweaking, but I do not know which one... Have you ever had any experience with some ancient Digital OS having poor DECnet performance as described? And how did you solve that, or at least improve it? Here are some (maybe) interesting bits: Request # 1; Show Executor Node Characteristics Completed Executor Node = 1.1010 (DIECI) Identification = DECnet-10 Version 4.0 Management Version = 4.0.0 Loop Count = 1 Loop Length = 127 Loop With = Mixed Incoming Timer = 30 Outgoing Timer = 60 NSP Version = 4.0.0 Maximum Links = 65535 Delay Factor = 48 Delay Weight = 10 Inactivity Timer = 120 Retransmit Factor = 10 Routing Version = 2.0.0 Type = Nonrouting IV Routing Timer = 600 Broadcast Routing Timer = 40 Maximum Address = 1023 Maximum Circuits = 20 Maximum Cost = 100 Maximum Hops = 16 Maximum Visits = 20 Maximum Broadcast Nonrouters = 64 Maximum Broadcast Routers = 32 Maximum Buffers = 80 Buffer Size = 576 Segment Buffer Size = 576 Request # 5; Show Line Characteristics Completed Line = ETH-0 Receive Buffers = 6 Controller = Normal Protocol = Ethernet Hardware Address = AA 00 04 00 F2 07 Receive buffer size = 576 Request # 7; Show Circuit Characteristics Completed Circuit = ETH-0 Cost = 1 Maximum Routers = 16 Router Priority = 5 Hello Timer = 90 Type = Ethernet I'll be grateful for any suggestion! :) G.

14 years

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