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by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 24/07/2012, a les 11:12, Johnny Billquist va escriure: On 2012-07-15 17:54, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: I've completed 3 posts about the installation/generation of a RSX11M 4.6 (no plus) system from scratch under the simh simulator. If someone is interested, the links are: http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… (There is no addsense in that blog, even though I must confess I tried to enable it and was rebuked by google because of "lack of content" ;), so this obvious spamming has no monetary interests behind ;)). Read through them. My first reaction is that you are pretty much just letting ACF figure out your hardware, and taking the default answer Yup. :) almost everywhere. That is certainly a valid approach, and it makes life easy. However, if you ever need to start actually change anything, life becomes much more complex, and your guide leaves the user totally helpless. Atleast a few comments about the whats, whys and wheres would probably be useful. I'll try to come up with something about this. For instance, ACF does not start up if I SYSGEN the running system again, then I have to go thru the whole device setup dialog. Also, even though you say you have your system installed, finished, and done, it is not. You have not installed RMS, for instance, which many layered produects will require. You built all your tasks to not use any shared libraries, there are potential problems with doing a SAV /WB, as well as the generated system from the VMR step, that you should look at. Also, there are potentially interesting stuff to change in the SYSVMR.CMD file, before you build your system. :) I've managed to install DECnet on a 11M system. In a 256KW machine. It worked. Kinda. I had a good time fighting VMR and VNP. But it works, and connects. So yes, definitely VMR deserves more attention. The queue manager is something you start in your SYSTARTUP.CMD, but unless my memory fails me, that is also something that needs some extra steps when you create it the first time, before it actually works in a usable way. Well, it seems to have created the appropriate files. TBH I've not tried to print anything :) XDT is sometimes a very nice thing to have in your system as well, which you skipped. Might be worth at least mentioning. I can't remember offhand what else might be good to do/know, but that is partly a problem because I don't use 11M much these days, partly because I know my way around RSX pretty good, and partly because I just forget things. I might remember more later, or after some additional read throughs. :-) Anyway, it's nice to see someone doing this kind of stuff. Keep at it. Hope someone finds it useful. Thanks for this words. The idea was to put up a "quick and dirty" guide to set up a barebones RSX11M system. It can be elaborated ad infinitum (layered product installation, network installation, partition managing, you know...). BTW, there is a huge, serious mistake in my setup. Perhaps I could leave it as an exercise to the reader... :) But no, it's too serious to leave it as is... In the next POS I'll write about my adventures setting up a standalone development system. After a lot of help from ppl from the simh list I've got what I think can be a working (playing) solution... Oh, remember I've never worked with 11s in my professional career :) I begun with a VAX, and now I am a mainframer. So it is just for fun. And, certinly, I'm having a LOT of fun. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 9 months

Multiple Area routers on one area?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Jul 24, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-07-24 01:33, Mark Benson wrote: Is it feasible/advisable/possible to have 2 Area Routers on a DECnet Phase IV network? The only reason I ask is that I'd like my emulated cluster system to be able to run Area 6 independently as all the nodes are area 6 nodes and it'd be neat to have area 6 working at places events like DEC Legacy. Would it cause issues on HECNet having 2 Area 6 routers in different places also? I'm guessing not as they are still on the same DECnet network, same as if they are in the same room on the same LAN, but what do I know ;) No problems. The only thing is that all area routers needs to have connectivity with other area routers with no level 1 routers in between. So in your case, your two area routers must be able to talk to each other without using any level 1 routers. However, I don't think that you must have a direct connection between them. I *think* that it should work fine even if they only connect via area routers in other areas. Yes. There are two requirements: 1. Each area must be intact (no partitioned areas). 2. The level 2 net must be intact (not partitioned). The level 2 net is defined as the set of connections between level 2 routers, so a pair of level 2 routers that have "connectivity" only via a level 1 router do not in fact have level 2 connectivity. (They do have level 1 connectivity, so they can communicate with each other and with other nodes in their area, but out of area communication will not work properly.) paul

12 years, 9 months

RSX11M 4.6 complete installation logs

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-07-24 11:46, MG wrote: On 24-7-2012 10:30, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-07-24 03:50, Boyanich, Alastair wrote: Nope. :-( It's still owned, restricted and a silly situation. Just like the last 10 years... Johnny Nuts. Indeed. Anyone have any really good contacts at HP? That RSX is the property of HP, I didn't know. I thought DEC sold several of its non-/pre-VMS proprietary operating systems to at least one company other than Compaq, or am I thinking of RT and RSTS/E? No, you are right in principle, but the situation is more complicated than that. And have been all the time. When DEC sold their PDP-11 software to Mentec, they retained some controlling rights over it. Those clauses are still in effect, meaning that even though DEC is now HP, and Mentec (or what's left of it) sold their PDP-11 software on, HP now have a controlling clause for all this software. It is HP that needs to be convinced to release things before anything else can happen. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 9 months

RSX11M 4.6 complete installation logs

by marcogb＠xs4all.nl

On 24-7-2012 10:30, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-07-24 03:50, Boyanich, Alastair wrote: Nope. :-( It's still owned, restricted and a silly situation. Just like the last 10 years... Johnny Nuts. Indeed. Anyone have any really good contacts at HP? That RSX is the property of HP, I didn't know. I thought DEC sold several of its non-/pre-VMS proprietary operating systems to at least one company other than Compaq, or am I thinking of RT and RSTS/E? - MG

12 years, 9 months

RSX11M 4.6 complete installation logs

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-07-15 17:54, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: I've completed 3 posts about the installation/generation of a RSX11M 4.6 (no plus) system from scratch under the simh simulator. If someone is interested, the links are: http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scrat… (There is no addsense in that blog, even though I must confess I tried to enable it and was rebuked by google because of "lack of content" ;), so this obvious spamming has no monetary interests behind ;)). Read through them. My first reaction is that you are pretty much just letting ACF figure out your hardware, and taking the default answer almost everywhere. That is certainly a valid approach, and it makes life easy. However, if you ever need to start actually change anything, life becomes much more complex, and your guide leaves the user totally helpless. Atleast a few comments about the whats, whys and wheres would probably be useful. Also, even though you say you have your system installed, finished, and done, it is not. You have not installed RMS, for instance, which many layered produects will require. You built all your tasks to not use any shared libraries, there are potential problems with doing a SAV /WB, as well as the generated system from the VMR step, that you should look at. Also, there are potentially interesting stuff to change in the SYSVMR.CMD file, before you build your system. The queue manager is something you start in your SYSTARTUP.CMD, but unless my memory fails me, that is also something that needs some extra steps when you create it the first time, before it actually works in a usable way. XDT is sometimes a very nice thing to have in your system as well, which you skipped. Might be worth at least mentioning. I can't remember offhand what else might be good to do/know, but that is partly a problem because I don't use 11M much these days, partly because I know my way around RSX pretty good, and partly because I just forget things. I might remember more later, or after some additional read throughs. :-) Anyway, it's nice to see someone doing this kind of stuff. Keep at it. Hope someone finds it useful. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 9 months

RSX11M 4.6 complete installation logs

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-07-24 03:50, Boyanich, Alastair wrote: Nope. :-( It's still owned, restricted and a silly situation. Just like the last 10 years... Johnny Nuts. Indeed. Anyone have any really good contacts at HP? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 9 months

Multiple Area routers on one area?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-07-24 01:33, Mark Benson wrote: Is it feasible/advisable/possible to have 2 Area Routers on a DECnet Phase IV network? The only reason I ask is that I'd like my emulated cluster system to be able to run Area 6 independently as all the nodes are area 6 nodes and it'd be neat to have area 6 working at places events like DEC Legacy. Would it cause issues on HECNet having 2 Area 6 routers in different places also? I'm guessing not as they are still on the same DECnet network, same as if they are in the same room on the same LAN, but what do I know ;) No problems. The only thing is that all area routers needs to have connectivity with other area routers with no level 1 routers in between. So in your case, your two area routers must be able to talk to each other without using any level 1 routers. However, I don't think that you must have a direct connection between them. I *think* that it should work fine even if they only connect via area routers in other areas. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 9 months

RSX11M 4.6 complete installation logs

by Alastair.Boyanich＠au.fujitsu.com

Nope. :-( It's still owned, restricted and a silly situation. Just like the last 10 years... Johnny Nuts.

12 years, 10 months

Multiple Area routers on one area?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

That's fine, and feasible, and in fact highly recommended if you want to build a robust network. The one thing to keep in mind is that you need to make sure the area is not partitioned. In other words, if you build for fault tolerance, first concentrate on protecting the area from partitioning. Having done that, build redundancy into the level 2 network. If you have two L2 routers out of the area, and that area is partitioned, traffic inbound will land on whichever area router is on the shortest path from the source. Area routing (L2 routing) is not aware of the details of what's inside areas; it only pays attention to the area part of the address. So there's a 50/50 chance that the router where the packet arrives into the destination area is the one that can't reach the destination. BTW, this is a direct analogy with the IP requirement that you have to protect against partitioned subnets, and for the same reason. I'm not sure from your description, but if what you're trying to do is to have two clumps of nodes that both call themselves area 6, but they aren't connected by L1 routers, the answer is that doesn't work anymore than two clumps of IP hosts that aren't connected but still claim to be in the same subnet will work. Don't do that. paul On Jul 23, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Mark Benson wrote: Is it feasible/advisable/possible to have 2 Area Routers on a DECnet Phase IV network? The only reason I ask is that I'd like my emulated cluster system to be able to run Area 6 independently as all the nodes are area 6 nodes and it'd be neat to have area 6 working at places events like DEC Legacy. Would it cause issues on HECNet having 2 Area 6 routers in different places also? I'm guessing not as they are still on the same DECnet network, same as if they are in the same room on the same LAN, but what do I know ;) -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 10 months

Multiple Area routers on one area?

by roll＠Stupi.SE

Is it feasible/advisable/possible to have 2 Area Routers on a DECnet Phase IV network? Yes. Restriction, you need are-routers to talk to all area-routers in your area thorug area-routers.. So you can not have non-area routers as transit between area routers. If you have two area routers on the same LAN, router priority and/or node-number will be used by the non-area routers to select wich one they hand their outgoing traffic to. The only reason I ask is that I'd like my emulated cluster system to be = able to run Area 6 independently as all the nodes are area 6 nodes and = it'd be neat to have area 6 working at places events like DEC Legacy. Would it cause issues on HECNet having 2 Area 6 routers in different = places also? I'm guessing not as they are still on the same DECnet = network, same as if they are in the same room on the same LAN, but what = do I know ;) I have 4 area routers in area 59, US-east-coast, US-west-coast and two in Sweden, works fine. --P

12 years, 10 months

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