Hello!
I quite agree. However take a look at what was involved to create
those preloaded images for the PDP-11 that once kept a crowd of
high-school students amused over in Delaware for many years. It was
involving and it can't be describe here politely.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-24 03:15, John Wilson wrote:
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
I think the disk images from AI were preserved, but I think that because
of all the guest accounts and so on, they have never been spread.
Which is weird, because for quite a while, the complete snapshots of
both AI and MC were available for anonymous FTP (and of course there was
no file protection on ITS while there were still live machines). So I
understand the retroactive motivation, but that horse was never even IN
the barn.
Oh, I agree. I never considered my files on AI to be secret either, and
wouldn't mind if someone found them.
But I know I have read about that concern, when it comes to the images of
AI. They didn't have the formal approval of the people owning all those
files, so they would need to scrub the images before anything could be made
available. I think it has partly been a question of making any ITS disk
image available for people who want a running system. I don't know what the
status is these days. Are there any ITS disk images around so that people
could install it on an emulator?
Johnny (BQT at AI)
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-24 03:15, John Wilson wrote:
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
I think the disk images from AI were preserved, but I think that because
of all the guest accounts and so on, they have never been spread.
Which is weird, because for quite a while, the complete snapshots of
both AI and MC were available for anonymous FTP (and of course there was
no file protection on ITS while there were still live machines). So I
understand the retroactive motivation, but that horse was never even IN
the barn.
Oh, I agree. I never considered my files on AI to be secret either, and wouldn't mind if someone found them.
But I know I have read about that concern, when it comes to the images of AI. They didn't have the formal approval of the people owning all those files, so they would need to scrub the images before anything could be made available. I think it has partly been a question of making any ITS disk image available for people who want a running system. I don't know what the status is these days. Are there any ITS disk images around so that people could install it on an emulator?
Johnny (BQT at AI)
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
You need to manually put 4 lines into the config (I'll tell you are when I get home) and my system takes care of the rest.
I can work with you on some manner of automated system if you would like. A quick and dirty web API would be trivial to do. (I just wrote one for another project, actually.)
-brian
On Sep 23, 2013, at 18:37, Jarratt RMA <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be automatic?
Thanks
Rob
On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to update your IP.
-brian
On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does it
> use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I get
> the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is
> not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode
> router.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
> Of Steve Davidson
> Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct
>
>
>
> If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, then I
> can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated.
> If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be
> even faster.
>
>
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Wickens
> Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct
>
> On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote:
>
> I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October,
> hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing
> attendees to explore HECnet.
>
>
>
> I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP until
> the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be
> available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to peer
> with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course of
> the weekend though.
>
>
>
> Are there any other options?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this
> in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did
> last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it does
> shake my memory a bit!
>
> Mark.
>
> <winmail.dat>
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
I think the disk images from AI were preserved, but I think that because
of all the guest accounts and so on, they have never been spread.
Which is weird, because for quite a while, the complete snapshots of
both AI and MC were available for anonymous FTP (and of course there was
no file protection on ITS while there were still live machines). So I
understand the retroactive motivation, but that horse was never even IN
the barn.
John Wilson
JOHNW at AI
On 2013-09-24 00:32, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 09/23/2013 06:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The ITS machines at MIT all seemed to have two letter names. I
definitely had an account on AI.
I have that machine. My machines were AI and ML.AI.
Fun. So I was using AI back in the mid 80s, from Sweden. (Yes, the internet existed even back then, or maybe I should say the DARPANET, which I think was the correct name at that specific point in time.)
I think the disk images from AI were preserved, but I think that because of all the guest accounts and so on, they have never been spread.
Johnny
I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be automatic?
Thanks
Rob
On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to update your IP.
-brian
On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does it
> use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I get
> the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is
> not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode
> router.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
> Of Steve Davidson
> Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct
>
>
>
> If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, then I
> can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated.
> If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be
> even faster.
>
>
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Wickens
> Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct
>
> On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote:
>
> I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October,
> hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing
> attendees to explore HECnet.
>
>
>
> I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP until
> the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be
> available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to peer
> with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course of
> the weekend though.
>
>
>
> Are there any other options?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this
> in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did
> last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it does
> shake my memory a bit!
>
> Mark.
>
> <winmail.dat>
On 09/23/2013 06:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The ITS machines at MIT all seemed to have two letter names. I
definitely had an account on AI.
I have that machine. My machines were AI and ML.AI.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-09-23 23:56, Pontus wrote:
On 09/23/2013 04:29 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 3:10 AM, Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at update.uu.se
<mailto:pontus at update.uu.se>> wrote:
I recall that it was a KA10,
but did KA10's run TOPS-20?
I think you are right, but my memory is fuzzy on all this now. IIRC
with the MIT/BBN pager modification, KA10's could run ITS or TENEX
(aka twinex - which was the Tops-20 pre-cursor ). Folks like dvk or
supnik are likely to remember, so I'll try to remember to ask one of
them when I see them next. A number of DARPA contractors had modified
processors and I'm pretty sure it took a processor modification to run
TENEX.
I loved TENEX until I was seduced by UNIX -- maybe its the X in the
name that takes you to darkside ;-)
I found the passage in the book, page 107 in this edition, sadly it
doesn't say much :(
<quote>
Instead, I sat and watched the hacker deliberately connect to the MX
computer, a PDP-10 at the MIT artificial intelligence labs in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. He logged in as user Litwin and spent almost an hour
learning how to operate that computer. He seemed quite unaccustomed to
the MIT system, and he'd frequently ask for the automated help facility.
In an hour, he'd learned little more than how to list files.
Perhaps because artificial intelligence research is so arcane, he didn't
find much. Certainly the antique operating system didn't provide much
protection - any user could read anyone else's files. But the hacker
didn't realize this. The sheer impossibility of understanding this
system protected their information.
</quote>
"Sheer impossibility" - makes me think ITS :) Further on he comes back
to the PDP-10:
<quote>
MIT. I'd forgotten to warn them. I called Karen Sollins of their
computer department and told her about Friday night's intrusion. "Don't
worry," she sais, "there's not much on that computer, and we're throwing
it away in a few weeks."
<quote>
So anyone really interested should find Karen Sollins.
I think I actually logged in to MX once or twice. Yes, that was indeed ITS... For some reason I also think it was a KS, but I could be wrong on that one...
The ITS machines at MIT all seemed to have two letter names. I definitely had an account on AI.
And yes, ITS can appear cryptic beyond belief.
Johnny
Hello!
I'd rather see a bootable pack containing ITS plus everything needed
to make the pest work properly.
-----
You then get handed a book on LISP as applied to EMACS containing
copious notes written in a really atrocious longhand and in a nearly
incomprehensible language.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 09/23/2013 06:16 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
When I read the book for the first time, I was surprised. Both at the
fink's lack of talent in how to talk to a PDP-10's OS (any) and then
his talents for doing things that most of us would want to do one way
or the other. And naturally not do because its really not legal.......
Dave is that system running? Or is it shutdown and waiting?
Shutdown and waiting. It needs a MASSBUS drive to boot from. I'm
pursuing some possibilities on that front, but very slowly.
You really need to get one so I can run TOPS-10 on it. ;)
I'm trying.
You then see a crowd of yetis and a bigger crowd of snow leopards at
work, at a machine. You see your available bandwidth shrink and then
realize that's what they are using.
Damn yetis are surfing porn again!
In emacs!!
Hey, it's a great OS for that. ;)
Too true!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 09/23/2013 06:15 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
It's very likely that that very computer is here. Two of the three
PDP-10s from the MIT AI Lab are here.
Possible. Planning on running ITS on one? ;)
I haven't decided yet. Too many things to do before I even worry
about that.
You should let me install TOPS-10 on one of them.
Maybe!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
