HECnet January 2013

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40 participants
1313 discussions

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 1/18/2013 8:35 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: If you can believe it or not my new laptop actually has a serial port. The funny thing is the old one didn't.:) Who made them though? (Old and new) HP. Old one was an EliteBook 8540p. New one is an EliteBook 8560p. They also ditched the HDMI port in favor of a DisplayPort one. Still not sure how I feel about that. -brian

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 1/18/2013 3:44 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: and that USB<->serial adapters don't work well (wrong) Try telling that to Cisco. Their new devices come with a USB port instead of a serial port for console. Wanna know what it is? It's a USB<->serial adapter built into the device. :) -brian

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 18 Jan 2013, at 20:34, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: On 1/18/2013 3:55 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 01/18/2013 03:47 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: RS232 is no longer common on average consumer PeeCees.;) Sure it is. Just not on the motherboard. Really, it's not all that difficult to plug in a $5 USB<->serial adapter. If you can believe it or not my new laptop actually has a serial port. The funny thing is the old one didn't. :) Who made them though? (Old and new) -brian -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff! http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 1/18/2013 3:55 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 01/18/2013 03:47 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: >RS232 is no longer common on average consumer PeeCees.;) Sure it is. Just not on the motherboard. Really, it's not all that difficult to plug in a $5 USB<->serial adapter. If you can believe it or not my new laptop actually has a serial port. The funny thing is the old one didn't. :) -brian

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/18/2013 03:47 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: RS232 is no longer common on average consumer PeeCees. ;) Sure it is. Just not on the motherboard. Really, it's not all that difficult to plug in a $5 USB<->serial adapter. Who the hell says terminal programs are hard to find? GNU Screen can be a terminal emulator, along with minty, HyperTerminal, putty the list goes on and on... I've heard it a lot. It's just the Windows people. "Terminal programs are EXPENSIVE!" No. Idiots. Go get a grownup OS and leave Windows for the videogames. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:44, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 01/18/2013 02:38 AM, John Wilson wrote: I remember being thoroughly impressed with the Z8530, and I've used it in several projects since then... I'm pretty !@*^% impressed too (except for the annoying two-step register access, which I guess is fixed in other versions). That DPLL is the perfect thing for ham packet radio -- wish I'd known about that (I paid Real Money for a used DUP11 about 20 years ago hoping to use it for hamming but never got around to building the circuitry it would have taken to whip up a clock, but it seems the Z8530 already has that and was commonly available at the time -- dammit!). I hate when that happens! So yes...if you're doing sync stuff with it, that might be very handy if we do this and it goes this route. Sync is the plan but I don't yet have anything to test against (waiting for some trivial PCBs to come back that save me the trouble of piecing together a Berg-to-DB25 cable for my DUV11, and I think they'll also work for DMV11s and DUP11s, so I'll have plenty to test/debug with). So that'll change within the next week and I'm working to have code ready by then. Gotcha. I'm interested in hearing of your progress; that sounds like fun! I would imagine it'd be offended. ;) However if memory serves, HDLC frames contain a few bits' worth of sequence numbers. BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? Ask Ian. ;) If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. I'd be up for almost anything. I like the idea of tunneling old protocols within standardized (if just as old) networking systems to enable connectivity where it wasn't possible before. If we do this, and if we can make it as flexible as possible, I'd be happy. As for config: is using the RS232 port (in async mode) too easy? I think a lot of people would be bothered by it because they think RS232 is no longer common (wrong) and that USB<->serial adapters don't work well (wrong) or that terminal programs are somehow hard to find (also wrong). Granted "those" people are probably not the target market, though. RS232 is no longer common on average consumer PeeCees. ;) Who the hell says terminal programs are hard to find? GNU Screen can be a terminal emulator, along with minty, HyperTerminal, putty the list goes on and on... -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/18/2013 02:38 AM, John Wilson wrote: I remember being thoroughly impressed with the Z8530, and I've used it in several projects since then... I'm pretty !@*^% impressed too (except for the annoying two-step register access, which I guess is fixed in other versions). That DPLL is the perfect thing for ham packet radio -- wish I'd known about that (I paid Real Money for a used DUP11 about 20 years ago hoping to use it for hamming but never got around to building the circuitry it would have taken to whip up a clock, but it seems the Z8530 already has that and was commonly available at the time -- dammit!). I hate when that happens! So yes...if you're doing sync stuff with it, that might be very handy if we do this and it goes this route. Sync is the plan but I don't yet have anything to test against (waiting for some trivial PCBs to come back that save me the trouble of piecing together a Berg-to-DB25 cable for my DUV11, and I think they'll also work for DMV11s and DUP11s, so I'll have plenty to test/debug with). So that'll change within the next week and I'm working to have code ready by then. Gotcha. I'm interested in hearing of your progress; that sounds like fun! I would imagine it'd be offended. ;) However if memory serves, HDLC frames contain a few bits' worth of sequence numbers. BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? Ask Ian. ;) If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. I'd be up for almost anything. I like the idea of tunneling old protocols within standardized (if just as old) networking systems to enable connectivity where it wasn't possible before. If we do this, and if we can make it as flexible as possible, I'd be happy. As for config: is using the RS232 port (in async mode) too easy? I think a lot of people would be bothered by it because they think RS232 is no longer common (wrong) and that USB<->serial adapters don't work well (wrong) or that terminal programs are somehow hard to find (also wrong). Granted "those" people are probably not the target market, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

On 18.1.2013 16:55, sampsa at mac.com wrote: It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. We HAVE to get an X.25 network going, seriously. What equipment do I need, a PAD and some kinda modem? :) sampsa . How about taking say a pair of Cisco routers and connect them back-to-back over Ethernet and connect the X.25 stuff to the serial ports at each end. :) Kari

11 years, 10 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 18 Jan 2013, at 09:55, sampsa at mac.com wrote: It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. We HAVE to get an X.25 network going, seriously. What equipment do I need, a PAD and some kinda modem? :) I agree. We HAVE to. sampsa -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff! http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.

11 years, 10 months

Sample DCL code for simple client-server task-to-task comms

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-18 07:41, sampsa at mac.com wrote: Half a year or maybe a year ago. Sampsa was running a program which used PHONE to check who was logged in on various machines. When he tried all machines in area 1, MIM got loads of entries in the log for Sampsa's machine trying to talk with machines that were down. (I might be remembering things wrong, and I might be mixing things up, but it was not as if MIM crashed or anything because of Sampsa's code, but I asked him to stop, as he was filling up plenty of logs as far as I can remember.) Yeah, I didn't mean crashed MIM or anything, but caused problems - basically the phone directory just went through the nodelist and did a PHONE DIR to them..If a node was down, the call would fail. It wasn't a good idea from BQT's side :) I don't remember all the details now, but I think it was something with the DECnet stack you used which made this worse. I seem to remember trying the same thing myself in various ways I couldn't trigger the logging. Did you run it under Linux, or what was it? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

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HECnet January 2013