HECnet January 2013

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

40 participants
1313 discussions

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 21 Jan 2013, at 15:49, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 01/21/2013 03:09 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: PuTTY has been ported to Linux too? WTF? WHY?! For one, VTxxx compatibility. Unless one really understands the Xresources and how to move the appropriate fonts from VMS to Linux, build the fontdir, reset the font cache and update the font path, PuTTY is a right-out-of-the- box VTxxx emulation. Ok, I'll buy that. I use plain old xterm for talking to my DEC machines. I use gnome-terminal for everything else. Out-of-the-box xterm works reasonably well, and all in all I'm pretty happy, but I have loved EDT since I was a kid, and not having a full keypad sucks. gnome-terminal from GNOME2 or GNOME3? Do you have any specific advice for xterm resource settings etc for better compatibility? I'm less worried about fonts...I'm comfortable wrangling them, been using X since the X10R4 (no typo there) days, but I'm not too concerned with maintaining font appearance compatibility. It's more keypad stuff, and functionality needed to drive EDT in a high-efficiency way. That's going back quite a ways. ;) In this regard, the Mac OS X Terminal.app works surprisingly well right-out- of-the-box. Xterm on Linux will require extensive changes to get it to pass that VTTEST suite. I used Terminal.app when I was still using OS X and it worked ok. iTerm worked even better. Try your xterm and see how well it does with that test suite. Terminal.app can be used to used to see what should be there if you don't have a real VT terminal. Dave, I know you do. ;) I do indeed. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/21/2013 03:09 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: PuTTY has been ported to Linux too? WTF? WHY?! For one, VTxxx compatibility. Unless one really understands the Xresources and how to move the appropriate fonts from VMS to Linux, build the fontdir, reset the font cache and update the font path, PuTTY is a right-out-of-the- box VTxxx emulation. Ok, I'll buy that. I use plain old xterm for talking to my DEC machines. I use gnome-terminal for everything else. Out-of-the-box xterm works reasonably well, and all in all I'm pretty happy, but I have loved EDT since I was a kid, and not having a full keypad sucks. Do you have any specific advice for xterm resource settings etc for better compatibility? I'm less worried about fonts...I'm comfortable wrangling them, been using X since the X10R4 (no typo there) days, but I'm not too concerned with maintaining font appearance compatibility. It's more keypad stuff, and functionality needed to drive EDT in a high-efficiency way. In this regard, the Mac OS X Terminal.app works surprisingly well right-out- of-the-box. Xterm on Linux will require extensive changes to get it to pass that VTTEST suite. I used Terminal.app when I was still using OS X and it worked ok. iTerm worked even better. Try your xterm and see how well it does with that test suite. Terminal.app can be used to used to see what should be there if you don't have a real VT terminal. Dave, I know you do. ;) I do indeed. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-21 21:09, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes: PuTTY has been ported to Linux too? WTF? WHY?! For one, VTxxx compatibility. Unless one really understands the Xresources and how to move the appropriate fonts from VMS to Linux, build the fontdir, reset the font cache and update the font path, PuTTY is a right-out-of-the- box VTxxx emulation. In this regard, the Mac OS X Terminal.app works surprisingly well right-out- of-the-box. Xterm on Linux will require extensive changes to get it to pass that VTTEST suite. VTTEST didn't even reveal that Terminal.app fails to clear the screen on DECCOLM... However, I wonder if I maybe know the person who wrote it. "The Mad Programmer" is a moniker I associate with a certain person... Try your xterm and see how well it does with that test suite. Terminal.app can be used to used to see what should be there if you don't have a real VT terminal. Dave, I know you do. ;) xterm worked like a charm with everything I tried. And that with the default xterm under Mac OS X. I don't know what or how it would be different under Linux. Of course, you need to have the proper fonts installed, but those are the base fonts, which I would normally always expect to be installed (except I did a new Ubuntu install at work a couple of weeks ago, and it turned out that the fonts were not installed, so it might be that the Linux world have finally totally lost their mind...) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/21/2013 03:29 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: You have a working binary for PuTTY on OS X? I'm forced to use Windows for work and I use PuTTY every day there. I'd love to have a copy for my home Macs. Where is it available? I heard recently that PuTTY had been ported to OS X. There seems to be no point at all to this. Open a Terminal, type "ssh <hostname>"...what's so tough about that? It works fine. Terminal.app doesn't provide a shiny GUI to connect to physical serial ports. ;) Well I guess if people "need" that sort of thing...but then, I respectfully submit that those are the types of people who aren't afraid of the keyboard. Just as you use ssh (or telnet) to connect to other systems, I respectfully point out that something like kermit is what you want if you want to connect to a serial port. Yes, that's what I usually use. Works great. (yes, I know GNU screen can do it too. I agree it seems fairly pointless.) Yes. And if memory serves, screen ships with OS X by default. screen is (sometimes) useful, but for a totally different reason. Yes, that, but it can also connect to serial ports, which seems strange to me. Feature creep, I guess. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by sampsa＠mac.com

Just as you use ssh (or telnet) to connect to other systems, I respectfully point out that something like kermit is what you want if you want to connect to a serial port. I actually use kermit as my default telnet client, just in case I want to move files around. I remember seeing a script to tie it in with SSH, need to set that up too. sampsa

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-21 21:09, Dave McGuire wrote: On 01/21/2013 03:02 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: You have a working binary for PuTTY on OS X? I'm forced to use Windows for work and I use PuTTY every day there. I'd love to have a copy for my home Macs. Where is it available? I heard recently that PuTTY had been ported to OS X. There seems to be no point at all to this. Open a Terminal, type "ssh <hostname>"...what's so tough about that? It works fine. Terminal.app doesn't provide a shiny GUI to connect to physical serial ports. ;) Well I guess if people "need" that sort of thing...but then, I respectfully submit that those are the types of people who aren't afraid of the keyboard. Just as you use ssh (or telnet) to connect to other systems, I respectfully point out that something like kermit is what you want if you want to connect to a serial port. (yes, I know GNU screen can do it too. I agree it seems fairly pointless.) Yes. And if memory serves, screen ships with OS X by default. screen is (sometimes) useful, but for a totally different reason. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-21 18:06, Cory Smelosky wrote: On 21 Jan 2013, at 09:16, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> writes: Dave McGuire wrote: > I've heard it a lot. It's just the Windows people. "Terminal > programs are EXPENSIVE!" No. Idiots. Go get a grownup OS and leave > Windows for the videogames. Off the top of my head, I can name at least two dozen easy-to-install free terminal emulators for Windows. There are probably a great many more than that. Is PuTTY not available for WEENDOZE??? On Mac OS X and Linux, it does a failrly reasonable job of digesting the VT200 series escape sequences and even does DECSWL and DECDHL correctly. If you want to test your emulator, telnet to great-escape.tmesis.com and log in with VTTEST -- no password. It's a captive account that runs the VTTEST suite. I was absolutely surprised at how well Mac OS X's Terminal.app handled that test. And I identified the first two bugs within 30 seconds of trying it. 1) It identifies itself as a VT100, although it's clearly more capable than that. (And I wonder how it actually deals with the printer port it claims it have...) 2) A DECCOLM should clear the screen, even if the width don't change. I'm sure I would find more if I tried. I don't use the terminal app in general. xterm works so much better if you want something VT220 like. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-21 15:16, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> writes: Dave McGuire wrote: > I've heard it a lot. It's just the Windows people. "Terminal > programs are EXPENSIVE!" No. Idiots. Go get a grownup OS and leave > Windows for the videogames. Off the top of my head, I can name at least two dozen easy-to-install free terminal emulators for Windows. There are probably a great many more than that. Is PuTTY not available for WEENDOZE??? On Mac OS X and Linux, it does a failrly reasonable job of digesting the VT200 series escape sequences and even does DECSWL and DECDHL correctly. If you want to test your emulator, telnet to great-escape.tmesis.com and log in with VTTEST -- no password. It's a captive account that runs the VTTEST suite. PuTTY is available. PuTTY have bugs. That said, it is still very useful. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes: PuTTY has been ported to Linux too? WTF? WHY?! For one, VTxxx compatibility. Unless one really understands the Xresources and how to move the appropriate fonts from VMS to Linux, build the fontdir, reset the font cache and update the font path, PuTTY is a right-out-of-the- box VTxxx emulation. In this regard, the Mac OS X Terminal.app works surprisingly well right-out- of-the-box. Xterm on Linux will require extensive changes to get it to pass that VTTEST suite. Try your xterm and see how well it does with that test suite. Terminal.app can be used to used to see what should be there if you don't have a real VT terminal. Dave, I know you do. ;) I'm more content with an xterm > and typing 'ssh ...'. To me, the command line is so much easier than a > GUI for something this simple. It's also easier when setting up various > port ssh-tunnels, IMNSHO. Yes. I only mentioned PuTTY because I know the WEENDOZE camp is command line > challeneged. That's one way to put it. ;) LOL -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

11 years, 10 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/21/2013 03:02 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: You have a working binary for PuTTY on OS X? I'm forced to use Windows for work and I use PuTTY every day there. I'd love to have a copy for my home Macs. Where is it available? I heard recently that PuTTY had been ported to OS X. There seems to be no point at all to this. Open a Terminal, type "ssh <hostname>"...what's so tough about that? It works fine. Terminal.app doesn't provide a shiny GUI to connect to physical serial ports. ;) Well I guess if people "need" that sort of thing...but then, I respectfully submit that those are the types of people who aren't afraid of the keyboard. (yes, I know GNU screen can do it too. I agree it seems fairly pointless.) Yes. And if memory serves, screen ships with OS X by default. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

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HECnet January 2013