On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:21, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/25/2012 03:07 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Ah. Is any sort of encryption done for cluster-over-IP?
Oh heck no. That sort of overhead's resultant latency would destroy
the performance of a cluster on all but the very fastest of machines.
Ah, right, I'm forgetting that clustering sends a lot of data.
Yes, and it's all pretty latency-sensitive.
Now I want to set up a cluster and intentionally crash it just to see how exactly it all falls over.
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Mmmm, true. Clustering is generally used for practical purposes and not my crazy experiments.
Right. And the VMS world isn't generally too worried about cracker
kiddiez and their root kits.
Nope. ;)
Now, if you manage to bring up a wide-area cluster (which I'd love to
see!), of course you could encrypt your tunnels. (I would)
I think I was going to try at some point I have a couple systems running simulated OpenVMS 8.4 and I almost set up an IP-based cluster. ;)
I don't THINK i actually did it but I almost did.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 12/25/2012 03:21 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Brian (Hechinger) and I once discussed the possibility of
implementing a similar clustering system within NetBSD. I
think just implementing the SCS protocol itself would be a good
start. I wonder if there's enough documentation out there to
do it.
What'd be really interesting is joining that to a VMS cluster.
;)
It would be a huge amount of work, and I'm not sure it'd be
practical. There are a lot of things in VMS that just don't have a
mappable counterpart in the UNIX world. RMS, for instance.
And a versioned filesystem. ;)
Yes, but there's nothing stopping an enterprising soul from
implementing ODS under UNIX. Speaking of which, this is no relation to
ODS, but I had the beginnings of the RT-11 filesystem implemented under
NetBSD many years ago. (I really should finish that, but time...)
Brian H and I were discussing this (this was, what, eight years
ago Brian?) in the context of building a tightly-coupled cluster of
NetBSD machines, with the same basic capabilities (as adjusted for
the environment) as VMS' clustering...tight shared filesystem,
distributed locking, etc. We even discussed process migration.
Nice! I still don't see why it's taking UNIX/Linux so long to catch
up to features VMS has had since the '80s. ;)
Mostly because the current featureset is most of what the world needs
and expects right now. Sure, one could do a LOT more with the
underlying features of VMS, but nobody left today knows how to do those
things...everything is a flat "stream of bytes" file, etc. We've gained
a lot, but we've also lost a lot.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 12/25/2012 03:09 PM, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Unless you count those geographically separate clusters with FDDI links :)
Come to think of it, I have like 3 of those cards and even some cables in London.
FDDI cards?
I have a vast number of FDDI cards for PCI and EISA. I have a few
concentrators, too. I'll be keeping some of it, but would be willing to
give the rest away if someone wants to come pick it up. I ran it for a
long time; much better design than 100Mbps Ethernet.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 12/25/2012 03:07 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Ah. Is any sort of encryption done for cluster-over-IP?
Oh heck no. That sort of overhead's resultant latency would destroy
the performance of a cluster on all but the very fastest of machines.
Ah, right, I'm forgetting that clustering sends a lot of data.
Yes, and it's all pretty latency-sensitive.
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Mmmm, true. Clustering is generally used for practical purposes and not my crazy experiments.
Right. And the VMS world isn't generally too worried about cracker
kiddiez and their rootkits.
Now, if you manage to bring up a wide-area cluster (which I'd love to
see!), of course you could encrypt your tunnels. (I would)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:19, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/25/2012 03:05 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Brian (Hechinger) and I once discussed the possibility of implementing
a similar clustering system within NetBSD. I think just implementing
the SCS protocol itself would be a good start. I wonder if there's
enough documentation out there to do it.
What'd be really interesting is joining that to a VMS cluster. ;)
It would be a huge amount of work, and I'm not sure it'd be practical.
There are a lot of things in VMS that just don't have a mappable
counterpart in the UNIX world. RMS, for instance.
And a versioned filesystem. ;)
Brian H and I were discussing this (this was, what, eight years ago
Brian?) in the context of building a tightly-coupled cluster of NetBSD
machines, with the same basic capabilities (as adjusted for the
environment) as VMS' clustering...tight shared filesystem, distributed
locking, etc. We even discussed process migration.
Nice! I still don't see why it's taking UNIX/Linux so long to catch up to features VMS has had since the '80s. ;)
If only we had more free time. :-(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:18, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Could do, uploading to my hosting first though.
Once that's done, I'll get in touch.
Okay. What's the total size of the collection?
Sampsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:13, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:10, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
The link will be a bit slow, downloading the whole MEDIALIB for mirroring purposes.
If you at some point want a second mirror, let me know.
Samlsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Unless you count those geographically separate clusters with FDDI links :)
Come to think of it, I have like 3 of those cards and even some cables in London.
sampsa
On 12/25/2012 03:05 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Brian (Hechinger) and I once discussed the possibility of implementing
a similar clustering system within NetBSD. I think just implementing
the SCS protocol itself would be a good start. I wonder if there's
enough documentation out there to do it.
What'd be really interesting is joining that to a VMS cluster. ;)
It would be a huge amount of work, and I'm not sure it'd be practical.
There are a lot of things in VMS that just don't have a mappable
counterpart in the UNIX world. RMS, for instance.
Brian H and I were discussing this (this was, what, eight years ago
Brian?) in the context of building a tightly-coupled cluster of NetBSD
machines, with the same basic capabilities (as adjusted for the
environment) as VMS' clustering...tight shared filesystem, distributed
locking, etc. We even discussed process migration.
If only we had more free time. :-(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Could do, uploading to my hosting first though.
Once that's done, I'll get in touch.
Sampsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:13, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:10, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
The link will be a bit slow, downloading the whole MEDIALIB for mirroring purposes.
If you at some point want a second mirror, let me know.
Samlsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Unless you count those geographically separate clusters with FDDI links :)
Come to think of it, I have like 3 of those cards and even some cables in London.
sampsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 15:10, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
The link will be a bit slow, downloading the whole MEDIALIB for mirroring purposes.
If you at some point want a second mirror, let me know.
Samlsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Unless you count those geographically separate clusters with FDDI links :)
Come to think of it, I have like 3 of those cards and even some cables in London.
sampsa
The link will be a bit slow, downloading the whole MEDIALIB for mirroring purposes.
Samlsa
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
On 25 Dec 2012, at 22:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Further, most VMS clusters are built with machines in the same
datacenter. It's not generally a wide-area thing.
Unless you count those geographically separate clusters with FDDI links :)
Come to think of it, I have like 3 of those cards and even some cables in London.
sampsa
