-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 18:04
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits?
On 23 Dec 2012, at 17:59, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/23/2012 05:56 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
As i'm not getting anywhere with my TOPS-10 endeavours,
I thought
i'd try something else: older VAXVMS in SIMH's VAX-11/780
simulator. ;)
1). What would be the best/most interesting version to try? 2).
Where would I get install media for these older versions? ;)
I have a bunch of older VMS distributions. I don't know
if they're
available anywhere else or not; I would assume so but am
not sure.
At least several 3.x and 4.x distributions, going back to
3.0. Let
me know if they're wanted and I can put them up somewhere.
Please upload them, I am quite interested in older VMS.
I don't want to squirt them around publicly. Do you have
a place on
HECnet that I can copy them to?
Unfortunately, my link is currently down (Steve's been busy
and we've been unable to quite get MWATCH working for me), so
we'll need to use some other method. Can you dump them on a
system here via scp? I have a pentium II I can give easy
access to for that.
I will try to deal with that today. So far this morning I have been
reworking NETUPDATE because of the large number of node additions and
changes. I found a bug when running it on GORVAX::. Seems that Sampsa
never changed the SCSSYSTEMID when he changed areas... I'll leave that
as an exercise for Sampsa.
Sampsa, Tag - you're it! :-)
The new version of NETUPDATE is much faster and deals with cluster
environments. Current versions should pick up the new version
automatically.
-Steve
I'd say 4.7 for speed and period-correctness, 5.5 for
feature fulness.
Maybe i'll go with both!
Do it!
I will!
The last release of VMS to run on an 11/780 was, I believe, v6.2.
I have a copy of 6.2 in some file format nothing knows.
VMS doesn't even seem to.
Send me a copy and I'll see if I can figure it out.
I found it here:
http://wdl1.winworldpc.com/Abandonware%20Operating%20Systems/M
isc/OpenVMS%206.2%20%5bVAX%5d.7z ( I hope you can handle 7-zip. > It's
probably really VMS backup format and I was using it wrong. ;) )
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 26 Dec 2012, at 10:25, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:45
To: Johnny Billquist
Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits?
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-24 03:37, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:33, "Steve Davidson"
<jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:25
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits?
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:23, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-24 03:05, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
I might have the wrong tape.
Is there some specific reason for V4.6?
Get a news VMS version -- I can make V6.something or
V7.something
available for you -- and then, restore the .B save set to
your boot
device. Then, you boot from the system disk to continue
the install.
Back then, VMS was dis- tributed on tape. I've no
idea how you
access that from SimH. During the boot, VMS will prompt
you to enter
where the distribution media is mounted and then, it will
just do the
rest -- just answer to the questions as they arise.
If I can find the time, I'll get to my storage unit and
pull the V4
(orange
wall) tomes with the installation notes for 11/780
just in case.
As I remember the procedure, it's kindof tricky to see how
you'd do it in simh.
On a real 11/780, you'd boot the standalone backup first.
Not sure, but I think that would have been a bunch of
RX01 floppies.
One the standalone backup is running, you can restore the
distribution tape .B saveset to the destination disk, and after
that, things starts getting easier.
However, as simh don't have the FE, nor RX01, how do you
get the standalone backup running?
I wonder if you could use the standalone backup from a
newer VMS to install a really old version. Recent CD
distributions
boot the standalone backup, and I suspect you would able to boot
simh into that.
I'm booting VMS 7.3 and running backup from there to image it to
another disk. Does it NEED to be standalone backup?
Not sure what Cory's real problem is though, as he claims
he now restores the .B saveset and still don't get a bootable
system. Did the backup restore the saveset without complaints?
What is the name of the saveset you are restoring, Cory?
Have you atleast read through the installation manual for a
recent VMS? I think the basic procedure is unchanged.
It copies the backup set without issue. Am I perhaps
attaching it
to the wrong tape device? (tq)
Johnny
It can be standalone or not. Try:
$backup/image/verify <version-saveset>.b/save <device>:
THAT worked.
What line did you use before? And why didn't you read the manuals?
backup vms052.b/save_set dual: As per the VMS 5.0
documentation, with 50 changed to 52.
However, doing backup/image/verify vms052.b/save dua1: worked.
Quick Note:
You have to use the "/image" qualifier. Saveset "B" is a disk image!
"/verify" is for piece of mind
Thanks, others said that awhile ago too, and my email client decided to send old messages again
And the set that 4.6 needed was REQUIRED., not a .B
-Steve
I will go back to trying VMS 4.6 in a bit.
Anyway. Good that you got somewhere.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:45
To: Johnny Billquist
Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits?
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-24 03:37, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:33, "Steve Davidson"
<jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:25
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits?
On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:23, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-24 03:05, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
I might have the wrong tape.
Is there some specific reason for V4.6?
Get a news VMS version -- I can make V6.something or
V7.something
available for you -- and then, restore the .B save set to
your boot
device. Then, you boot from the system disk to continue
the install.
Back then, VMS was dis- tributed on tape. I've no
idea how you
access that from SimH. During the boot, VMS will prompt
you to enter
where the distribution media is mounted and then, it will
just do the
rest -- just answer to the questions as they arise.
If I can find the time, I'll get to my storage unit and
pull the V4
(orange
wall) tomes with the installation notes for 11/780
just in case.
As I remember the procedure, it's kindof tricky to see how
you'd do it in simh.
On a real 11/780, you'd boot the standalone backup first.
Not sure, but I think that would have been a bunch of
RX01 floppies.
One the standalone backup is running, you can restore the
distribution tape .B saveset to the destination disk, and after
that, things starts getting easier.
However, as simh don't have the FE, nor RX01, how do you
get the standalone backup running?
I wonder if you could use the standalone backup from a
newer VMS to install a really old version. Recent CD
distributions
boot the standalone backup, and I suspect you would able to boot
simh into that.
I'm booting VMS 7.3 and running backup from there to image it to
another disk. Does it NEED to be standalone backup?
Not sure what Cory's real problem is though, as he claims
he now restores the .B saveset and still don't get a bootable
system. Did the backup restore the saveset without complaints?
What is the name of the saveset you are restoring, Cory?
Have you atleast read through the installation manual for a
recent VMS? I think the basic procedure is unchanged.
It copies the backup set without issue. Am I perhaps
attaching it
to the wrong tape device? (tq)
Johnny
It can be standalone or not. Try:
$backup/image/verify <version-saveset>.b/save <device>:
THAT worked.
What line did you use before? And why didn't you read the manuals?
backup vms052.b/save_set dual: As per the VMS 5.0
documentation, with 50 changed to 52.
However, doing backup/image/verify vms052.b/save dua1: worked.
Quick Note:
You have to use the "/image" qualifier. Saveset "B" is a disk image!
"/verify" is for piece of mind...
-Steve
I will go back to trying VMS 4.6 in a bit.
Anyway. Good that you got somewhere.
Johnny
On 26 Dec 2012, at 13:24, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
Cm'on guys. Do you want a relatively cheap place, with good night life, (relative) safety and not-so-hardcore as Beirut? Come to Barcelona! ;)
I'd be cool with that, always liked Catalan joints, used to ski every year in Andorra when I lived in Portugal.
Sampsa
On 26 Dec 2012, at 12:49, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
Just to cover something here, as far as non-bridge link I *will not* do manual stuff. That's just icky.
For the bridge connections I don't see that we have a lot of choice so we'll have to think on that when we get it.
Brian, the manual stuff was a duck tape solution - the once that don't show up send me their router + end node CSVs and update them whenever there's a change.
For the mapping, it makes no difference where they came from and the format is stupidly simple anyway :)
Sampsa
Al 26/12/12 02:33, En/na sampsa at mac.com ha escrit:
On 26 Dec 2012, at 03:31, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
And I did suggest Switzerland. Nice and neutral. :-)
As well as being very central so it's not too far for anyone.
(Said half in joke, since I do realize the costs of actually staying here for a couple of days isn't cheap.)
Not a fan of CH, way too expensive and kinda dull :)
Beirut is too hardcore I guess, maybe one meet in CA and another in UK around the DEC Legacy event?
Not that I'm that fond of the UK either, hence my impending departure..
sampsa
Cm'on guys. Do you want a relatively cheap place, with good night life, (relative) safety and not-so-hardcore as Beirut? Come to Barcelona! ;)
On 12/25/2012 8:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 12/25/2012 06:14 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Found the problem, STUPI isn't listing you as a known circuit:
I think the actual connection is between their Cisco routers. STUPI has
nothing to do with it and doesn't know about it.
Bob's right; these are GRE tunnels (Peter is a hard-core Cisco guru),
both to Peter and to Brian H. (who is quite sharp with Cisco stuff as
well!)
So how can we do this...I don't think IOS implements NICE, but I'm
sure its DECnet routing table can be pulled out via SNMP. Brian
(Hechinger), I can set up a read-only SNMP community and your poller
(when it discovers an appropriate router) can walk the tree, maybe? And
either Sampsa's code can parse that output, or you can reformat it into
a consistent format to hand to Sampsa? What do you think? (snmpwalk is
your friend!)
This is being written in python so I'm sure I won't have any trouble accessing SNMP. I hope. :)
I have my router as well, but the more data points the better.
I'm nowhere near looking into that just yet however.
I will keep you all informed. :)
-brian
On 12/26/2012 4:30 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
Actually it looks like I would need to implement various other layers before
I could even start on NICE, that might be a bit too much. SNMP might be an
option in that case. I don't know much about the details of SNMP, I can look
it up of course but I guess there would need to be a format for the routing
and end node data, if I can match what CISCO produces then that would make
it easier, anyone have any info on this?
You guys got off into the woods fast. :)
I will look into non-dec router devices after we get the dec ones nailed down with my current code.
I'm thinking possibly SNMP for the cisco devices, yes. Not 100% sure that'll work though.
As to your router if you don't want to bother with NICE or SNMP just let me know how I remotely query your device. How that happens is up to you so long as it isn't silly. :)
A simple API that shoots back something like JSON or XML is fine, for example.
We'll talk later when I get to you. :)
Just to cover something here, as far as non-bridge link I *will not* do manual stuff. That's just icky.
For the bridge connections I don't see that we have a lot of choice so we'll have to think on that when we get it.
-brian
Actually it looks like I would need to implement various other layers before
I could even start on NICE, that might be a bit too much. SNMP might be an
option in that case. I don't know much about the details of SNMP, I can look
it up of course but I guess there would need to be a format for the routing
and end node data, if I can match what CISCO produces then that would make
it easier, anyone have any info on this?
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Jarratt [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com]
Sent: 26 December 2012 09:10
To: 'hecnet at Update.UU.SE'
Cc: 'sampsa at mac.com'
Subject: RE: [HECnet] HECnet mapping project
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 26 December 2012 01:24
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: sampsa at mac.com
Subject: Re: [HECnet] HECnet mapping project
On 2012-12-26 02:13, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
On 26 Dec 2012, at 03:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Yuck. Seriously, if you depend on manual information, it's going to
be
broken sooner or later.
I'm not at all clear what the problem is, though. I can, from MIM,
tell
which areas are online. And for each area, you can check which nodes
are online in that area. After that, it just becomes a question of
figuring out how the bits are connected.
The problem is the CISCO gear doesnt talk NCP, so we can't do stuff
like
SHOW KNOW CIRC (to get routers to walk) or SHOW ADJ NODES (to get
end
nodes).
If the CISCO guys want on the map, it'll have to be manual for now....
You'll have the same problem with Rob's DECnet router... And possibly
other equipment, or nodes that don't want to talk NICE.
I have just downloaded the spec and will think about how easy it would be
to
add this to the router, not that anyone other than me uses it :-(
Johnny
