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Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

It's not amuzing; nor are the myriad absurd DCL menuing interfaces I've seen implemented at all too many sites over the years. Well I guess you could use it for something practical as well, but the default panels I will supply will be as close to IBM ISPF as possible.

12 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-30 01:52, Sampsa Laine wrote: On 29 Sep 2013, at 23:15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: THe OSI model is pretty much a load of BS. 3 layers can be condensed to about 1 and one of them just doesn't exist. I never understood what the hell the session layer was for anyway - I figure anything above layer 3 (transport) should be handled by apps, not by 4 layers of network stack. Well, transport is supposed to be layer 4, but anyway... The whole OSI model *is* BS. If I remember right back when they were creating it (by committee of course), the US delegates wanted 6 levels, and Europeans wanted 8, so they compromised on 7. And of course, they didn't base it on anything working. It's a paper product that noone ever really implemented. DECnet Phase V is as close as anyone ever got, if I remember right. And phase V wasn't exactly a success. But it sure took time and resources to implement. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 23:53, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes: This is a little bit unfair for the blue guys :) =20 ISPF is far more than a set of screens to invoke TSO commands. The = panels (that's how ISPF screens are called) are just a part of the whole = thing. ISPF integrates with TSO, so we are talking about: =20 - The TSO command language (CLIST language) and also the REXX = language. - The panel facility. - The skeleton facility. =20 It is quite easy to "simulate" the ISPF panels (you just need DCL to = do it, I did it when I worked with DEC machines in a mostly IBM-centric = company), but that would be just the user interface. The APIs provided = with ISPF are way beyond that... I was planning on developing a simple format for defining the panels, = mapping the options to DCL and any params / switches they need. I am = aware that ISPF can be used for way more than the basic IDE / sysop = functions that it comes with by default, don't some ISVs actually build = their software using ISPF panels as the interface? I just thought a IBM mainframe lookalike interface to VMS would be = amusing if nothing else. It's not amuzing; nor are the myriad absurd DCL menuing interfaces I've seen implemented at all too many sites over the years. If you really want to implement a menu interface on VMS, have a look-see into the SMG$ library. Roll-your-own ESCAPE sequences called out in DCL command procedures leads to problems with terminal compatibility, as well as horrors when trying to debug[*] and maintain it. Apart from the SMG$ library, he might want to play with FMS. But I agree with you that I personally don't find it amusing at all. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 1 month

VT-62?

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:30, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: Never seen any of that either. There was a block mode version of the VT100 as well, if I remember right. Maybe compatible? Although I have not seen the documentation for that one either. This looks kinda nifty too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_2640 I wonder if there are any HP1000/3000

12 years, 1 month

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:36, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-09-28 11:30, Sampsa Laine wrote: Yeah I was thinking of typing up some Arabic documents in say EDIT and using TYPE to view them - but Terminal.app doesn't seem to pass the Arabic letters across correctly. I think you are a little confused. I probably didn't express myself clearly enough :) "Arabic letters" as such don't pass through anywhere. We're talking computers here. Everything is ones and zeroes. Except Terminal.app only accepts Latin letters as input, rejects Arabic. Not a VMS issue. It's just a case of how you choose to interpret those ones and zeroes at each end. Are you saying that Terminal.app (a program I avoid by the way, since the VT100 emulation is buggy) I've not run into any major issues with

12 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 29 Sep 2013, at 23:15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: THe OSI model is pretty much a load of BS. 3 layers can be condensed to about 1 and one of them just doesn't exist. I never understood what the hell the session layer was for anyway - I figure anything above layer 3 (transport) should be handled by apps, not by 4 layers of network stack.

12 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

Getting SNMP to the brouter should be easy, need to work out how to do the same for GRE. Will get back to you once I have worked it out. Regards Rob From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Brian Hechinger Sent: 29 September 2013 22:07 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. GRE doesn't run over a port, it's a Layer 4 (transport) protocol. SNMP is 161. The email address is just where you want notification emails sent so your normal email is probably appropriate. The emails that are sent can also be copy and pasted into the router in the event that SNMP doesn't work. -brian On Sep 29, 2013, at 4:00, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote: I was going to have a go at this today, but thinking about it I am not sure this can work at DEC Legacy or even here at home because it would always be behind NAT. Can we make this work with NAT? What ports would you need? Nevertheless I have it configured with DECnet and I have entered the two SNMP commands below (I used the public community name, not sure if that is right because I know very little about SNMP). The information you wanted was: Your external IP Addres: 86.4.69.74 Your external FQDN: jarratt.dyndns.org Is this a dynamic IP: yes The DECnet area at this location: 5 The source interface on your router: Ethernet0 The email address you want updates sent to: rob at jarratt.me.uk (not sure if this is what you mean, this goes to my regular email address, are we talking about some email capability in the router?) The snmp community from the above directions: public I hope that is the information you need. Regards Rob From: Jarratt RMA [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com] Sent: 24 September 2013 21:14 To: HECnet Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct I won't be home until the end of the week, I will try it this weekend. Regards Rob On 24 September 2013 21:03, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: Ok, 5 lines. :) first you need to enable DECnet routing: decnet routing X.Y (where X.Y is the DECnet address you want to give it) decnet node-type area Then you need to add this to the interface that talks to your DECnet LAN segment: decnet cost 10 Then you need to allow my config tool to talk to your router: access-list 10 permit 37.59.44.141 snmp-server community <community name> RW 10 Then you just need to get me all that info I asked for and we should be good. The machine running the config tool is down right now so I'm in no hurry. :) -brian On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:37:23PM +0100, Jarratt RMA wrote: > I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can > do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want > to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy > using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working > let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, > does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be > automatic? > > Thanks > > Rob > > > On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: > > > If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to > > update your IP. > > > > -brian > > > > On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> > > wrote: > > > > > I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does > > it > > > use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I > > get > > > the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is > > > not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode > > > router. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On > > Behalf > > > Of Steve Davidson > > > Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > > > Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > > > > > > > If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, > > then I > > > can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated. > > > If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be > > > even faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Wickens > > > Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > > > Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote: > > > > > > I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October, > > > hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing > > > attendees to explore HECnet. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP > > until > > > the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be > > > available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to > > peer > > > with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course > > of > > > the weekend though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any other options? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this > > > in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did > > > last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it > > does > > > shake my memory a bit! > > > > > > Mark. > > > > > > <winmail.dat> > >

12 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 23:06, Brian Hechinger wrote: To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. GRE doesn't run over a port, it's a Layer 4 (transport) protocol. Oooo, how I hate it when people try to make the IP stack line up with the OSI model... :-) They are *incompatible*. THe OSI model is pretty much a load of BS. 3 layers can be condensed to about 1 and one of them just doesn't exist. SNMP is 161. That is port 161 in both UDP and TCP. Sorry, I just felt like nitpicking today. Grumpy I guess. Call me an old fart. :-) Johnny -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

Hello! Odd. I'd thought that they would be named Hagar and Hamlet. When those things first came out, the advertising being used was indeed from Hagar the Horrible, a Viking. In fact I even have a mouse pad from it...... And there's a reason why those shell commands were beyond the comprehension of regular people. They were not written by people..... ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: On Sep 29, 2013, at 17:01, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 09/29/2013 04:26 PM, Hans Vlems wrote: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Smit (graphical) and smitty (textual). On one of the boxes at PSU when I was there renamed to smut and smutty. :) -brian

12 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 23:06, Brian Hechinger wrote: To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. GRE doesn't run over a port, it's a Layer 4 (transport) protocol. Oooo, how I hate it when people try to make the IP stack line up with the OSI model... :-) They are *incompatible*. SNMP is 161. That is port 161 in both UDP and TCP. Sorry, I just felt like nitpicking today. Grumpy I guess. Call me an old fart. :-) Johnny The email address is just where you want notification emails sent so your normal email is probably appropriate. The emails that are sent can also be copy and pasted into the router in the event that SNMP doesn't work. -brian On Sep 29, 2013, at 4:00, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com <mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>> wrote: I was going to have a go at this today, but thinking about it I am not sure this can work at DEC Legacy or even here at home because it would always be behind NAT. Can we make this work with NAT? What ports would you need? Nevertheless I have it configured with DECnet and I have entered the two SNMP commands below (I used the public community name, not sure if that is right because I know very little about SNMP). The information you wanted was: Your external IP Addres: 86.4.69.74 Your external FQDN: jarratt.dyndns.org <http://jarratt.dyndns.org> Is this a dynamic IP: yes The DECnet area at this location: 5 The source interface on your router: Ethernet0 The email address you want updates sent to: rob at jarratt.me.uk <mailto:rob at jarratt.me.uk> (not sure if this is what you mean, this goes to my regular email address, are we talking about some email capability in the router?) The snmp community from the above directions: public I hope that is the information you need. Regards Rob *From:*Jarratt RMA [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com] *Sent:* 24 September 2013 21:14 *To:* HECnet *Subject:* Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct I won't be home until the end of the week, I will try it this weekend. Regards Rob On 24 September 2013 21:03, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net <mailto:wonko at 4amlunch.net>> wrote: Ok, 5 lines. :) first you need to enable DECnet routing: decnet routing X.Y (where X.Y is the DECnet address you want to give it) decnet node-type area Then you need to add this to the interface that talks to your DECnet LAN segment: decnet cost 10 Then you need to allow my config tool to talk to your router: access-list 10 permit 37.59.44.141 snmp-server community <community name> RW 10 Then you just need to get me all that info I asked for and we should be good. The machine running the config tool is down right now so I'm in no hurry. :) -brian On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:37:23PM +0100, Jarratt RMA wrote: > I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can > do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want > to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy > using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working > let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, > does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be > automatic? > > Thanks > > Rob > > > On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net <mailto:wonko at 4amlunch.net>> wrote: > > > If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to > > update your IP. > > > > -brian > > > > On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com <mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does > > it > > > use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I > > get > > > the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is > > > not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode > > > router. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>] On > > Behalf > > > Of Steve Davidson > > > Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> > > > Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > > > > > > > If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, > > then I > > > can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated. > > > If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be > > > even faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> on behalf of Mark Wickens > > > Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> > > > Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote: > > > > > > I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October, > > > hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing > > > attendees to explore HECnet. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP > > until > > > the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be > > > available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to > > peer > > > with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course > > of > > > the weekend though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any other options? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this > > > in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did > > > last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it > > does > > > shake my memory a bit! > > > > > > Mark. > > > > > > <winmail.dat> > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 1 month

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