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by b4＠gewt.net

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Mark Wickens wrote: On 03/10/2013 03:01, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: Sweet! :-) I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches. I like trying appropriate vintage VMS for the machines. It's weird how the subtle differences creep in. It's obvious at 6.1 how much TCP/IP, for example, is a 'bolt on'. Not required for the OS. DECnet and underlying clustering protocols working just fine on their own. Happy days. I like appropriate vintage OSes for systems, too. 6.2 also seems a bit lighter. Lighter??? I have a different definition of "lighter" than others. FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within it. The VAX processors, even in the latter generation VAX systems, are not very fast by today's standards. If you believe that every little bit helps, then you'd be running V7.3 to get every little bit of help you can get from VMS. I need to get a compatible CD drive before I can do that. Until then I shall stick with 6.2 -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-03 17:00, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Mark Wickens wrote: On 03/10/2013 03:01, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: Sweet! :-) I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches. I like trying appropriate vintage VMS for the machines. It's weird how the subtle differences creep in. It's obvious at 6.1 how much TCP/IP, for example, is a 'bolt on'. Not required for the OS. DECnet and underlying clustering protocols working just fine on their own. Happy days. I like appropriate vintage OSes for systems, too. 6.2 also seems a bit lighter. Lighter??? FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within it. The VAX processors, even in the latter generation VAX systems, are not very fast by today's standards. If you believe that every little bit helps, then you'd be running V7.3 to get every little bit of help you can get from VMS. I remember when VMS V5 came out. It was a total dog. I think DEC started to work on improving performance in V6, but I would not be surprised to learn that V7 is much better for performance than V6... Johnny

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Mark Wickens wrote: On 03/10/2013 03:01, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: Sweet! :-) I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches. I like trying appropriate vintage VMS for the machines. It's weird how the subtle differences creep in. It's obvious at 6.1 how much TCP/IP, for example, is a 'bolt on'. Not required for the OS. DECnet and underlying clustering protocols working just fine on their own. Happy days. I like appropriate vintage OSes for systems, too. 6.2 also seems a bit lighter. Lighter??? FWIW, you'd be much better off running the latest and greatest on your VAX hardware to take advantage of the performance features contained within it. The VAX processors, even in the latter generation VAX systems, are not very fast by today's standards. If you believe that every little bit helps, then you'd be running V7.3 to get every little bit of help you can get from VMS. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by b4＠gewt.net

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/02/2013 06:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Write it directly. Backup can do that right? I don't have to right disk images to disk in VMS too often. ;) No. This is what I've done to write tape images to tapes: $ INIT/ERASE MUA0: "" $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512 MUA0: $ COPY <filename> MUA0: $ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MUA0: Can anyone (Brian S?) say if this will work with disk as the destination device as well? I'd guess yes, but I haven't done it myself, at least not recently enough that I remember. -Dave Crap. My only good disk (the quantum was DEAD++ it seems) is just about 60M too small. Which is weird as the drive says it's 2G despite on the casing. Meaning I can either copy the files off manually to a blank disk...or I can stick with VMS 6.3 instead of 7.3. ;) ALl of VMS, even V7.3, fit on a single CD. That 600MB, give or take, and should easily fit on a 1GB drive. So, if yours truly is a 2GB drive, more is at work here. 7.3 is around 619M when burned to CD. My 1.05G drive is dead and the 2G drive (really, it's some bizarre size like 2296M...go IBM!) yet only shows up as around 550M. After checking jumpers there is nothing to indicate size settings and I can read from/write to the drive fine. The drive that sounds like a bench grinder is just plain nonfunctional. ;) -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by b4＠gewt.net

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Mark Wickens wrote: On 03/10/2013 03:01, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: Sweet! :-) I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches. I like trying appropriate vintage VMS for the machines. It's weird how the subtle differences creep in. It's obvious at 6.1 how much TCP/IP, for example, is a 'bolt on'. Not required for the OS. DECnet and underlying clustering protocols working just fine on their own. Happy days. I like appropriate vintage OSes for systems, too. 6.2 also seems a bit lighter. It's also an excuse to break out the SPL and install some of the wonderful old tools and apps. Yup. ;) Regards, Mark. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes: =20 =20 (Seriously. I can't run unzip or tar...but I can run pico!) =20 PICO? I wouldn't mind a copy of that for HILANT, it's a great little = simple editor. PICO can be found in the DECUS Library compendium which I maintain. http://DECUSlib.com/DECUS/ Google: site:DECUSlib.com PICO editor -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/02/2013 06:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Write it directly. Backup can do that right? I don't have to right disk images to disk in VMS too often. ;) No. This is what I've done to write tape images to tapes: $ INIT/ERASE MUA0: "" $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512 MUA0: $ COPY <filename> MUA0: $ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MUA0: Can anyone (Brian S?) say if this will work with disk as the destination device as well? I'd guess yes, but I haven't done it myself, at least not recently enough that I remember. -Dave Crap. My only good disk (the quantum was DEAD++ it seems) is just about 60M too small. Which is weird as the drive says it's 2G despite on the casing. Meaning I can either copy the files off manually to a blank disk...or I can stick with VMS 6.3 instead of 7.3. ;) ALl of VMS, even V7.3, fit on a single CD. That 600MB, give or take, and should easily fit on a 1GB drive. So, if yours truly is a 2GB drive, more is at work here. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 5 months

OpenVMS on VAXstation 4000/60

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes: On 10/02/2013 06:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Write it directly. Backup can do that right? I don't have to right disk images to disk in VMS too often. ;) No. This is what I've done to write tape images to tapes: $ INIT/ERASE MUA0: "" $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512 MUA0: $ COPY <filename> MUA0: $ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MUA0: Can anyone (Brian S?) say if this will work with disk as the destination device as well? I'd guess yes, but I haven't done it myself, at least not recently enough that I remember. Destination being a disk? Yes. $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DUA0: $ COPY <filename> DUA0: $ DISMOUNT DUA0: $ MOUNT [/OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION] [/SYSTEM] DUA0: [label] The [] items are optional depending upon what you will do with the drive after writing the image to it. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 5 months

SIMH/VAX "temporary VMS cluster" for satellite installation notes

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 03/10/2013, a les 1:37, Ryan Blair <blairrya at cse.msu.edu> va escriure: Since this has come up a few times as a recommendation (but without details on how to do it), I figured I'd provide my [really terse and unclean] notes on how to set up a SIMH/VAX image you can use to temporarily satellite boot VAXen into a cluster just to lay a fresh copy of VMS down onto them (and then on reboot have the targets be standalone machines). Please let me know if you have suggestions for cleaning this up! I'd love feedback for this. (...) ### installing VMS from a remote CD on a satellite-booted node: $ mount/over=id $1$dua3: (that's $ALLOCLASS$REMOTEDEVICE:) $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DUA0: $ backup $1$dua3:[000000]vms073.b/save_set dua0:/init /image/verify/list $ DISMOUNT DUA0: $ MOUNT/OVER=ID DUA0: $ COPY $1$dua3:[000000]vms073.* DUA0:[000000] ### if you want DECWindows you'll need DECW073.* too $ DISMOUNT DUA0: $ @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN (make sure to pick REMOVE_NODE) SET BOOT DUA0: BOOT These download services are typically implemented using the host-based InfoServer support. ### END Wouldn't it be easier to use the "CREATE a duplicate system disk for XXXXX" of the config_cluster menu once you have setup the satellite? I mean, you could have a "clean" VMS install in a simh simulated VAX configured as a cluster boot server, then simply add any new machine as a satellite, configure the satelite so its own disk is visible from the boot node and then copy the clean system disk over the new machine. After that it is just question of updating MODPARAMS.DAT with the identifiers for your new system (and making it stand-alone if you don't want it to be clustered), clean up and initialize the DECNET databases and you will be done... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 5 months

VT-62?

by e.olofsen＠xs4all.nl

One more note on Emacs and alternatives... Emacs 19.28 compiled on my Alpha with VMS 6.1. On my VAX I only have gcc 2.8.1, and after lots of trouble and batch time, I gave up. Having lost SOS and EDT fluency, I had a look at JED. Interestingly, recent sources compile both on the old VAX as well as on CHIMPY. JED's author still keeps the VMS dependencies in the distribution, but untested only. Erik On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 12:09:38AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-10-02 23:59, Clem Cole wrote: On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com <mailto:mcguire at neurotica.com>> wrote: Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux distributions. Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other emacs implementations YMMV. In addition, a port of Emacs is actually not that trivial. Anyone familiar with TOPS-20 (or OS/8, or probably some other of DEC OSes) will probably recognize what I'm going to write next. Emacs "knows" how an executable looks like, and how the memory layout is of the running program, and how dynamic libraries work, and so on. Because, as a part of building emacs, emacs will start bare bone, read in all kind of initial lisp packages, compile stuff, and create a finalized emacs in memory that is running with all the bit and pieces of initialization code already run. At that point, emacs will do a memory dump to disk, and munge that file to be an executable. And that is the actual emacs binary. For any new system, and especially for any new binary image format, emacs needs to be taught all about it. But anyway, if the scope would be "emacs" and not "GNU emacs", then implementations exists for just about everything. I've written a small emacs-clone in TECO-8, there exists multiple Emacs clones for MS-DOS (maybe the best known is Epsilon). Stacken (the computer club at the Royal Institute of Technology) wrote an emacs clone called AMIS, which ran on VMS way back, as well as on Tops-10, RSTS/E, Norsk Data machines, and god knows what else. There is MicroEMACS, which is really easy to port around (I have it running on RSX). 2BSD have JOVE. I'm sure people can easily come up with other implementations... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 5 months

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