HECnet

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15589 discussions

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:52, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: The second part of this is actually making the files visible in the specific library. For this users need write access to the directory (and possibly extend access). In order to find the files, you need read access. For removing files from a directory, you need write access to the directory. So obviously, you either allow both entering and removing, or neither. That's what I ended up doing, I trust there aren't too many griefers on HECnet that'll go and delete random files. But seriously, if you find something cool or want to post an image of yourself, send it to CHIMPY:[.DROPBOX]. I've got a few alpha EXEs up there and a couple of pics of myself in SIXEL and JPEG formats.. sampsa

12 years, 4 months

Public "dropbox" type directory?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 01:03, Sampsa Laine wrote: What would be the correct security settings for a directory that: - Allows anyone to add a file - Anyone can read any file - Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files. Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find. I read through the discussion, but didn't see any attempt at an analysis of this, so I'll try to make some comments here. In comparison to Unix, protections in VMS (and RSX) work a little different. Anyone can always create a file on a volume, unless the volume ownership and protection generally prevents you. File in VMS and RSX do not need to exist in any directory.

12 years, 4 months

OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Mark Wickens writes: On 08/10/2013 12:15, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on, but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs. Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1 installation disk. Just 2 nodes? What's your quorum configuration? Post: $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES ..from each node. I think you, sir, may have found the issue: On RIPLEY (the Alpha): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes On DALLAS (the VAX): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three nodes to form a cluster. However, let's look at what you said. You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster. You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang. If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting in data corruption. Thanks for the reminder of these issues. To be honest my experience with clustering is limited and generally specific to satellite based configurations. In this case I may make the VAX a satellite of the Alpha with the local disk acting as page/swap. Am I right in thinking then that the relationship changes somewhat in that the Alpha will always need to be up but the VAX can come and go as it pleases (with the correct shutdown sequence)? All nodes: EXPECTED_VOTES = 1 Alpha: VOTES = 1 VAX/satellites: VOTES = 0 The VAX and any satellites can come and go. You may see some delay on the Alpha as these transitions occur. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 4 months

EISNER:: ?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Oh it's not installed yet, I'm not in Finland at the moment. Need to get the phone and the circuit switched data number (I HOPE operators still do them).. Then if you have a similar phone and dont mind the costs, you can bundle upto 4 channels into one 56 kbps V.110 channel... sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:44, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Great! I'll give it a whirl when I get outta work this evening (assuming time permits!). I'll dial out with my Commodore 64 :) On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

12 years, 4 months

EISNER:: ?

by jferraro＠gmail.com

Great! I'll give it a whirl when I get outta work this evening (assuming time permits!). I'll dial out with my Commodore 64 :) On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

12 years, 4 months

EISNER:: ?

by sampsa＠mac.com

I remember you calling into CHIMPY with that 2400 baud Amstrad thing, good times. But the Nokia 9210 is actually pretty cool, V.110 is like wireless ISDN plus if the other side has an analogue modem, the operator has a modem pool that converts the signal. Ideal for this use I think (next to zero operating costs, easy connection, flexible, can't get hit by lightning*) * Seriously, the place in Hila has taken a few harsh hits during storms, the electrical system was protected but the telephone wiring wasn't, high voltage jumps from PSTN to Skype base station to switch via ethernet, 1000+ euros damage. So we decided to take all the telephone wiring out and just use Skype. Nobody has noticed any difference. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:39, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

12 years, 4 months

Public "dropbox" type directory?

by jferraro＠gmail.com

Heh... this is obviously the way we did it in UNIX decades ago... I always complained about trying to use UNIX for the very thing it seemingly opposed (strict user controls) ... ... and we still do this; I can't keep users out of the OS an in the app... argh... Surely VMS can do better! On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: >Sampsa Laine wrote: What would be the correct security settings for a directory that: - Allows anyone to add a file - Anyone can read any file - Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files. Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find. Just a suggestion. Why not have TWO directories? (a) WRITE ONLY - anyone can send files to it - normally named: INCOMING (b) READ ONLY - anyone can read any file Just in case, you can (probably should) monitor what is added to (a), then copy it over to (b) ONLY after it is checked. Having (a) which only you can look at (you might allow the contents to be displayed, but I would not recommend it) provides much better security. I also suggest that for any file larger that 10 MB, an MD5 checksum also be sent so you can verify the large file was sent correctly. Jerome Fine

12 years, 4 months

EISNER:: ?

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

12 years, 4 months

OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

In an NI cluster you can get away with expectedvotes=votes. IMHO disk corruption can only happen if another host accesses a local disk outside the DLM. In a CI or DSSI cluster this can happen and lead to multiply allocated blocks errors. An alpha takes more time waiting to form a cluster, even with expectedvotes set to votes than a VAX. I haven't tried it on an rx2600 as yet. In production I once configured a two node VAX 3100 NI cluster. Expectedvotes set to 2 and votes to 1. Each node had a local disk designated as quorum disk, one vote. All other disks were shadows et between the two systems. This thoroughly unsupported configuration ran for years until DEC forced a micro VAX 2000 on us. The supported cluster had more user down time once one of the host went down. In the unsupported cluster the vote of a quorum disk came into play only if the other VAX failed and almost noticeable, no cluster reconfiguration that took many seconds. Hans Van: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- Verzonden: dinsdag 8 oktober 2013 13:15 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster Mark Wickens writes: >On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: >> Mark Wickens writes: >> >>> Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at >>> the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS >>> cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX >>> creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on, >>> but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs. >>> >>> Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1 >>> installation disk. >> Just 2 nodes? >> >> What's your quorum configuration? >> >> Post: >> >> $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES >> $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES >> >> ..from each node. >I think you, sir, may have found the issue: > >On RIPLEY (the Alpha): > >$ mcr sysgen show votes >Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic >-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- >------- >VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes >$ mcr sysgen show expected votes >Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic >-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- >------- >EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes > > >On DALLAS (the VAX): > >$ mcr sysgen show votes >Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic >-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- >------- >VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes >$ mcr sysgen show expected votes >Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic >-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- >------- >EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three nodes to form a cluster. However, let's look at what you said. You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster. You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang. If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting in data corruption. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 4 months

OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 08/10/2013 12:15, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on, but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs. Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1 installation disk. Just 2 nodes? What's your quorum configuration? Post: $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES ..from each node. I think you, sir, may have found the issue: On RIPLEY (the Alpha): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes On DALLAS (the VAX): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three nodes to form a cluster. However, let's look at what you said. You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster. You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang. If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting in data corruption. Thanks for the reminder of these issues. To be honest my experience with clustering is limited and generally specific to satellite based configurations. In this case I may make the VAX a satellite of the Alpha with the local disk acting as page/swap. Am I right in thinking then that the relationship changes somewhat in that the Alpha will always need to be up but the VAX can come and go as it pleases (with the correct shutdown sequence)? Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

12 years, 4 months

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