On 2013-12-18 17:50, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 18 Dec 2013, at 18:37, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu
<mailto:drb at msu.edu>> wrote:
Does VMS support Arabic text in the console (VT-series terminals etc)
or graphical modes (X11)?
In about 1983, I did some work on VMS 3.x systems in Riyadh. The user
terminals were Tandberg 2200 family devices with Arabic language
support. I don't recall there being anything special about the
installed VMS: it had no significant localizations in terms of system
messages, etc. We were able to do mixed English and Arabic text on
these terminals using standard system utilities (EDT), COBOL
applications and the Cincom Total database. The terminals operated on a
set-shift model, and it seems like maybe the | character was the shift.
Everything was single-byte character sets. IIRC the terminals dealt
with the Arabic positional shifting character forms.
I suspect this isn't exactly what you're looking for, though.
De
It might be actually, I'd love to be able to type Arabic on my VMS
boxes, we're getting a retrotech crowd together in Egypt and Lebanon.
The problem with Arabic is that each letter has up to four shapes
depending on its position in the word, i.e. the initial, medial, final
and independent.
So for example the letter MEEM ( - looks like a little circle with a
vertical line hanging off it, sometimes) looks like this when attached
to a SEEN ( - three small vertical bumps):
Independent:
Initial (MEEM-SEEN):
Medial (SEEN-MEEM-SEEN):
Final (SEEN-MEEM):
Are these encoded as four separate characters or is the renderer meant
to figure out the ligatures and render the correct form of MEEM when
presented with it from memory?
I've attached a PNG of the example above in case some of you guys don't
have Arabic fonts :)
I'd say it's safe to assume that VMS do not do any advanced stuff that you're looking for now, Sampsa. You might have a separate application that can understand all this, but VMS itself do not. In general, each byte is one character, and once output, it stays.
Any rendering of characters differently depending on position will either have to be done inside the terminal, or else by special software in VMS, which is not a part of any normal piece.
Johnny
On 18 Dec 2013, at 18:37, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote:
Does VMS support Arabic text in the console (VT-series terminals etc)
or graphical modes (X11)?
In about 1983, I did some work on VMS 3.x systems in Riyadh. The user
terminals were Tandberg 2200 family devices with Arabic language
support. I don't recall there being anything special about the
installed VMS: it had no significant localizations in terms of system
messages, etc. We were able to do mixed English and Arabic text on
these terminals using standard system utilities (EDT), COBOL
applications and the Cincom Total database. The terminals operated on a
set-shift model, and it seems like maybe the | character was the shift.
Everything was single-byte character sets. IIRC the terminals dealt
with the Arabic positional shifting character forms.
I suspect this isn't exactly what you're looking for, though.
De
It might be actually, I'd love to be able to type Arabic on my VMS boxes, we're getting a retrotech crowd together in Egypt and Lebanon.
The problem with Arabic is that each letter has up to four shapes depending on its position in the word, i.e. the initial, medial, final and independent.
So for example the letter MEEM ( - looks like a little circle with a vertical line hanging off it, sometimes) looks like this when attached to a SEEN ( - three small vertical bumps):
Independent:
Initial (MEEM-SEEN):
Medial (SEEN-MEEM-SEEN):
Final (SEEN-MEEM):
Are these encoded as four separate characters or is the renderer meant to figure out the ligatures and render the correct form of MEEM when presented with it from memory?
I've attached a PNG of the example above in case some of you guys don't have Arabic fonts :)
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
Does VMS support Arabic text in the console (VT-series terminals etc)
or graphical modes (X11)?
In about 1983, I did some work on VMS 3.x systems in Riyadh. The user
terminals were Tandberg 2200 family devices with Arabic language
support. I don't recall there being anything special about the
installed VMS: it had no significant localizations in terms of system
messages, etc. We were able to do mixed English and Arabic text on
these terminals using standard system utilities (EDT), COBOL
applications and the Cincom Total database. The terminals operated on a
set-shift model, and it seems like maybe the | character was the shift.
Everything was single-byte character sets. IIRC the terminals dealt
with the Arabic positional shifting character forms.
I suspect this isn't exactly what you're looking for, though.
De
Does VMS support Arabic text in the console (VT-series terminals etc) or graphical modes (X11)?
I _THINK_ I saw something in the Hobbyist license PAK related to Hebrew..
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
Just thought I'd mention this - I just installed the Alpha-VM product by those Russian guys and have it configured as a 1 CPU ES40 with 512 MB RAM, no JIT CPU acceleration.
However, I decided to stick the system / data (this is a toy system, so only using one 20 GB disk image) on my SSD and the thing FLIES.
Even though VUPS.COM and WHETSTONE (not great benchmarks for Alphas I know, but I was just doing some ballpark numbers) show that the box should be 5x slower than CHIMPY, it feels just as a fast or ever faster..
I think in a few years it'll be possible to run some pretty beefy Alpha boxes on a combo of SSD storage and commodity Intel server hardware (almost considering migrating CHIMPY onto this box to save on power :)
Now if I only had a license for their 4 core, JIT compiled version that supports like 16 GB of RAM..Sigh...
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
Hello!
I've got a better idea. Let's not. There are two crowds who need to
perform mayhem. So lets spin this one around us.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/14/2013 11:07 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I think I might need a new rx50...or to find the correct cable.
rx0: attempt to get status failed: unit offline (not mounted) (code 3, subcode 1)
It has 2 disks in it...but I might be using the wrong cable.
Remember, no "twist" in the RX50 cable...it has to be straight-through.
I assume you're using this on the RQDX3 I gave you? Are you using a
proper breakout panel for it, like the one from the defunct BA23?
(let's move this purely to DECtec before Johnny gets all anti-social
on us...Hi Johnny! *poke* ;))
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 12/14/2013 11:07 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I think I might need a new rx50...or to find the correct cable.
rx0: attempt to get status failed: unit offline (not mounted) (code 3, subcode 1)
It has 2 disks in it...but I might be using the wrong cable.
Remember, no "twist" in the RX50 cable...it has to be straight-through.
I assume you're using this on the RQDX3 I gave you? Are you using a
proper breakout panel for it, like the one from the defunct BA23?
(let's move this purely to DECtec before Johnny gets all anti-social
on us...Hi Johnny! *poke* ;))
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
________________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] on behalf of Dave McGuire [mcguire at neurotica.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:02 PM
To: DEC discussion list.; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Re: [DECtec] disk loading success
On 12/14/2013 08:02 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
________________________________________
From: DECtec [dectec-bounces at dectec.info] on behalf of Dave McGuire [mcguire at neurotica.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:16 PM
To: DEC discussion list.; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [DECtec] disk loading success
Then, armed with confidence from that success, I dismounted and
unplugged the RA90 from the VAX-7000 and plugged it into a PDP-11/44
(2MB, FPP, CIS, UDA50) and booted it. That worked too! =)
This makes me really want to get my 11/44 working...and get the UDA50 I'm owed.
I'll also need an SDI drive and cable...or 3.
(Now of course I could do the same with a Qbus PDP-11, with a KDA50
SDI controller.)
My first desire was to do the actual RSTS/E install under simh on the
VAX-7000 directly to the raw device, but that crashed for reasons
unknown. Mark Pizzolato told me that it was unlikely to work, so I may
not investigate that any further.
Tonight, I will likely put together a VAX4000-700 in a BA440 chassis
with DSSI drives. Into that I will put a KDA50 (I have an S-box KDA50
distribution panel) and use that in the role of the VAX-7000 for this
type of stuff in the future.
If I could convince you to spare an SDI disk, I could have you write images for me! ;)
I am looking to have MORE SDI-interfaced drives, not fewer. ;) I just
lost one the other day, if you recall.
Understandable. ;)
I think I might need a new rx50...or to find the correct cable.
rx0: attempt to get status failed: unit offline (not mounted) (code 3, subcode 1)
It has 2 disks in it...but I might be using the wrong cable.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
