On Sat, 15 Nov 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
Think of it this way. Remember "wash boards"? I don't know if you
have a different term for them in Sweden, but they are how we washed
clothes a century ago, before automated washing machines. It's a rough
metal plate in a wooden frame that sticks out of a bucket of soapy
water, and you rub the clothes on it to flush out the dirt. If the wash
board is patented, and someone still owns that patent, it's very
unlikely that anyone in the business world would consider that patent to
be worth anything, for the obvious reason.
I think the washboard would've gone the way of the Audion...the patent expired if it WAS patented.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 11/15/2014 04:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
By the way - why do people assume that people would not want to protect
their rights?
This whole attitude scares me a little.
In this case, it's because the rights are to a decades-old OS that is
viewed by the business world as being nothing more than a long-dead
historical curiosity.
That is a mistaken assumption. Just because most have long since
forgotten it does not mean it is dead.
Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I love those OSs too. But
that's not the point.
We know it's awesome, and we understand why, but let's put it this
way...Windows is fast disappearing, and it's not exactly TOPS-10/20
that's killing it.
Yeah. Not sure how relevant that is, though.
It's very relevant. TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 are great OSs, I will never
dispute that, but they are no longer commercially viable in the
mainstream. We will never see TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 for sale to the
public in retail packages. Further, it's highly unlikely that we'll see
it making serious inroads in data center use.
Neither Dell, Apple, IBM, nor HP will be selling TOPS-10/TOPS-20
machines anytime soon. That's really all it boils down to. It *is* a
dead platform, commercially speaking.
It's certainly possible (IMO) that it could be brought into this era
technologically, as it has a good base to build on, but I don't know of
any companies or investors who would support such work. I think it
should happen, but it likely will not.
Think of it this way. Remember "wash boards"? I don't know if you
have a different term for them in Sweden, but they are how we washed
clothes a century ago, before automated washing machines. It's a rough
metal plate in a wooden frame that sticks out of a bucket of soapy
water, and you rub the clothes on it to flush out the dirt. If the wash
board is patented, and someone still owns that patent, it's very
unlikely that anyone in the business world would consider that patent to
be worth anything, for the obvious reason.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2014-11-15 12:55, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/15/2014 03:49 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-11-14 16:43, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening,
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
By the way - why do people assume that people would not want to protect
their rights?
This whole attitude scares me a little.
In this case, it's because the rights are to a decades-old OS that is
viewed by the business world as being nothing more than a long-dead
historical curiosity.
That is a mistaken assumption. Just because most have long since forgotten it does not mean it is dead.
We know it's awesome, and we understand why, but let's put it this
way...Windows is fast disappearing, and it's not exactly TOPS-10/20
that's killing it.
Yeah. Not sure how relevant that is, though.
Johnny
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-11-14 16:43, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening,
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
By the way - why do people assume that people would not want to protect their rights?
This whole attitude scares me a little.
I can't imagine the profits from TOPS-10/20 would exceed the legal fees...correct me if I am wrong as to what current major use of the code is.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-11-14 17:55, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Mentec seems to have departed from the scene. As for the -11 stuff,
there's a site who claims to be its owner. Look at the site that our
friend runs for SIMH, there's an reference to it.
The current owners of the PDP-11 software is XX2247 LLC. I doubt it's a secret anymore.
Johnny
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
I don't believe so.
-brian
On Nov 14, 2014, at 20:13, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
If I remember correctly they did not. They only got VMS. The PDP OSes went elsewhere.
Mentec got the -11 stuff...but I don't think that included the -10 stuff...did it?
-brian
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 11/15/2014 03:49 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-11-14 16:43, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening,
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
By the way - why do people assume that people would not want to protect
their rights?
This whole attitude scares me a little.
In this case, it's because the rights are to a decades-old OS that is
viewed by the business world as being nothing more than a long-dead
historical curiosity.
We know it's awesome, and we understand why, but let's put it this
way...Windows is fast disappearing, and it's not exactly TOPS-10/20
that's killing it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2014-11-14 16:47, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Nov 14, 2014, at 7:43 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Evening,
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
If it was copyrighted originally, that copyright is certainly still valid. Anything that didn t expire prior to the last set of changes will remain valid for decades, thanks to the Mickey Mouse Protection Act.
Interesting question who owns it. Did HP get that piece of DEC?
Already answered, but I might as well repeat it.
Yes, it's still copyrighted, as you say Paul.
No, HP never got their hands on it. DEC sold it all to XKL as XKL was in the business of making yet another PDP-10. And XKL eventually did deliver that machine. Almost none sold, however.
And as a part, XKL also made some further development as well as porting lots of GNU stuff over to TOPS-20.
XKL is sortof still using bit and pieces of the software. And XKL did pretty much go down the same path as Cisco, which ironically also started out as a plan to build a PDP-10. They just got sidetracked into doing network gear. XKL at least have a PDP-10 in the center of their network gear. :-)
Johnny
On 2014-11-14 16:43, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening,
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
By the way - why do people assume that people would not want to protect their rights?
This whole attitude scares me a little.
Johnny
On 2014-11-15 11:57, Ryan Blair wrote:
On 11/14/14 4:43 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
Just curious.
http://www.36bit.org/dec/license.html
Tim Shoppa's site seems to be under active maintenance, but I believe
another text copy of the license is there as well.
Yes. And that covers hobbyist use of TOPS-10/20. However, as to the other part of the question - what is the legal status and who owns it, the answer is that it is still under copyright.
And the owners are XKL, who bought it all from DEC. And they still use it as well.
Johnny
On 11/14/14 4:43 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
What IS the current copyright status on TOPS-10/20? Who owns it? I
assume it's still copyrighted I assume...and I doubt the current
copyright owner would bother to enforce their rights to it.
Just curious.
http://www.36bit.org/dec/license.html
Tim Shoppa's site seems to be under active maintenance, but I believe
another text copy of the license is there as well.
-Ryan
