Guys,
I've had an idea for improving the usability and security of the bridge: Encryption.
Now I realise that we're not dealing with a massively high-security installation here with
with HECnet but please hear me out :)
My proposal is that each end point of a bridge connection share a secret and use some
form of symmetric encryption (say AES in ECB mode) whilst communicating. This shouldn't
be terribly difficult to achieve (I might take a look at coding this myself once the rum-fuelled
haze from last night's Notting Hill Carnival wears off) in a fairly small amount of code.
If in addition a receiver of a valid packet constantly updated the target address of it's packets
to the source address of the last valid packet received the arrangement would not only ensure
that the host sending the data is in fact who they claim they are, but would enable a sending
host to change its IP address without borking things up, thus making our beloved bridge
usable on dynamic IP setups.
A CRC-32 (of the unencrypted frame) would be used to determine the validity of the data.
Example connection, Host A -> B
1. A receives a decnet frame on ethernet
2. A calculates a CRC-32 for the frame
3. A encrypts frame using shared secret with B
4. A appends CRC-32 from step 2 to the encrypted frame from step 3.
5. Frame is sent to B
6. B decrypts frame using shared secret with A
7. B calculates a CRC-32 of decrypted frame, compares with received CRC-32
8. Are they equal, if not abort.
9. Frame is valid, send onto ethernet.
10. B updates A's address to that of source address of the last frame.
Comments anyone?
Sampsa
On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 8:40 AM +0200 8/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I assume 4.6 should have a separate tape for the DECnet install?
If you by that mean that DECnet isn't on the normal RSX distribution,
then yes.
If, on the other hand, you guess that the DECnet distribution itself is
multiple tapes, then no. It's only one tape in 4.6. It was only one tape in
4.5 as well. I can't remember if it was one or two tapes in 4.4 now.
I was simply asking if the DECnet distribution was separate from the RSX
distribution. Which means I'm lacking DECnet.
Ok. I wasn't sure. In the past, the DECnet distribution was on two (or
three) tapes. I don't think it have ever been on the same tapes as RSX
itself. And in the past, the RSX distribution came on two tapes as well, You
had the BRUSYS tape, and then the actual system. But that changed in the
last few releases as well.
Johnny
Hello!
Well I did mention that the Trailing-Edge ftp site was up to it's ears
in things and as it happens I didn't find the tapes for RSX, but I did
find stuff for RSTS:
Index of ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsts_dists
Up to higher level directory
File: basic_plus_2_v2_1.zip 553 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_plus_2_v2_2.zip 282 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_plus_2_v2_3.zip 784 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_plus_2_v2_4.zip 1169 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_plus_2_v2_5.zip 1214 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_plus_2_v2_6.zip 1983 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: basic_translator_rsts_fieldtext.tap.bz2 50 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: bb-k400d-bc_pdp_f77_rsts_v5_0_c1983.tap.bz2 210 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: bb-k400e-bc_pdp_f-77_rsts_v5_w_c1987.tap.bz2 303 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: bb-k400e-bc_pdp_f77_rsts_v5_2_c1987.tap.bz2 303 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: bb-k400f-bc_pdp_f77_rsts_v5_3_c1988.tap.bz2 300 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: bb-p655c-bc_decmail11rsts_v3_0_c1986.tap.bz2 972 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: bp2_v2_7.zip 1804 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: c_v1_2.zip 1658 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: cobol-11_v4_4.zip 606 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: cobol-81_v2_3.zip 577 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: decmail-11_v3_1.zip 461 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: decnet-e_v2_0.zip 382 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: decnet-e_v2_1.zip 811 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: decnet-e_v4_0.zip 1113 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: decnet-e_v4_1.zip 703 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: f4p_rl02.zip 697 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: f77_v5_3.zip 317 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: fms11_v2_1.zip 321 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: fortran-77_v5_4.zip 504 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: fortran_iv_v2_8.zip 277 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: microrsts.zip 3371 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: pdp-11_c_for_rsts_e_t1_0_ft_7july89.tap.bz2 526 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: pdp-11_c_for_rsts_e_t1_1_7_13_90.tap.bz2 1097 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: pdp-11_c_for_rsts_e_v1_0_22_dec_89.tap.bz2 1003 KB 10/30/2005
12:00:00 AM
File: pdp-11_c_t1_0_fieldtest2_rstse.tap.bz2 762 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: pdp11_c_rsts_v1_1.zip 1623 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_e_v9_3_ft_update.tap.bz2 5054 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v8_csp180.zip 2289 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v8_sysgnl.zip 3484 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v8_update-g.zip 3397 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_0_install.zip 2331 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_1_install.zip 4016 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_2_install.zip 5320 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_3_install.zip 5900 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_4_install.zip 6636 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_5_install.zip 7297 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_6_install.zip 7883 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rsts_v9_library.zip 4852 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rstse_v9_3_field_test.tap.bz2 5013 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rstse_v9_6_final_field_test.tap.bz2 6908 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rstsv7gen.tar.Z 5063 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rstsv9_source.zip 7980 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
File: rstsv9_src.zip 7980 KB 10/30/2005 12:00:00 AM
And everything can be found at the location given above.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 8:40 AM +0200 8/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I assume 4.6 should have a separate tape for the DECnet install?
If you by that mean that DECnet isn't on the normal RSX distribution, then yes.
If, on the other hand, you guess that the DECnet distribution itself is multiple tapes, then no. It's only one tape in 4.6. It was only one tape in 4.5 as well. I can't remember if it was one or two tapes in 4.4 now.
I was simply asking if the DECnet distribution was separate from the RSX distribution. Which means I'm lacking DECnet.
Ok. I wasn't sure. In the past, the DECnet distribution was on two (or three) tapes. I don't think it have ever been on the same tapes as RSX itself. And in the past, the RSX distribution came on two tapes as well, You had the BRUSYS tape, and then the actual system. But that changed in the last few releases as well.
Johnny
At 8:40 AM +0200 8/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I assume 4.6 should have a separate tape for the DECnet install?
If you by that mean that DECnet isn't on the normal RSX distribution, then yes.
If, on the other hand, you guess that the DECnet distribution itself is multiple tapes, then no. It's only one tape in 4.6. It was only one tape in 4.5 as well. I can't remember if it was one or two tapes in 4.4 now.
I was simply asking if the DECnet distribution was separate from the RSX distribution. Which means I'm lacking DECnet.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 1:32 AM +0200 8/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sure it is. That's almost back to the '80s...
Wasn't 4.5 the last version released (by Mentec, too) ?
No. Mentec also released V4.6 back in 1998, or maybe it even got to january 1999. Can't remember for sure.
Johnny
I assume 4.6 should have a separate tape for the DECnet install?
If you by that mean that DECnet isn't on the normal RSX distribution, then yes.
If, on the other hand, you guess that the DECnet distribution itself is multiple tapes, then no. It's only one tape in 4.6. It was only one tape in 4.5 as well. I can't remember if it was one or two tapes in 4.4 now.
Johnny
At 1:32 AM +0200 8/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sure it is. That's almost back to the '80s...
Wasn't 4.5 the last version released (by Mentec, too) ?
No. Mentec also released V4.6 back in 1998, or maybe it even got to january 1999. Can't remember for sure.
Johnny
I assume 4.6 should have a separate tape for the DECnet install?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sure it is. That's almost back to the '80s...
Wasn't 4.5 the last version released (by Mentec, too) ?
No. Mentec also released V4.6 back in 1998, or maybe it even got to january 1999. Can't remember for sure.
Johnny
Bob Armstrong skrev:
Hmm. You're running an "old" version of RSX are you? :-)
It's M+ v4.3. Not that old, AFAIK.
Sure it is. That's almost back to the '80s...
I think that the "generic" tape is the one that you should start with. You should only do the DECnet tape after you've done the generic tape.
If you're missing that tape, that's not good. You will never have a working DECnet installation in that case.
I might be able to help with M+ 4.3, but we might as well take that outside the list.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Bob Armstrong skrev:
All this HECnet discussion has inspired me to try and install DECnet on a
RSX-11M+ system. Man! This RSX NETGEN is only for the determined and
persistent, isn't it?
In any case, I managed to extract the PREGEN.CMD file from the tape to
[137,10] and execute it. This is what happens -
@PREGEN
.... lots of stuff deleted ....
* 02.00 Are you running on a small dual-disk system? [Y/N]: N
* 04.00 Where is the Network distribution kit loaded [S]: MS0:
* 04.01 Is the tape already loaded in MS0:? [Y/N]: Y
* 04.02 Is the tape 1600 BPI? [Y/N]: Y
...
FLX -- File not found
MS0:[137,10]NETMOV.DAT
FLX -- File not found
MS0:[137,10]NETMOV.DAT
;
; Error - The file MS0:[137,10]NETMOV.DAT could not be copied.
;
Hmmm... No file named NETMOV.DAT on the tape ...
Doing a directory of my DECNET-11M-PLUS tape, I see these files -
FLX TT:=MS0:/DI
Directory MS0:[137,10]
23-Aug-80
PREGEN.CMD 94. 13-Jun-89 <233>
DECMOV.DAT 15. 13-Jun-89 <233>
DECCFG.CMD 5. 13-Jun-89 <233>
DECPRM.CMD 7. 13-Jun-89 <233>
DECGEN.CLB 699. 13-Jun-89 <233>
DECGEN.KIT 1. 13-Jun-89 <233>
Total of 821. blocks in 6. files
Odd - there's a file DECMOV but not NETMOV. After much head scratching
and
reading of the cryptic PREGEN.CMD indirect command processor file, I've
come
to the conclusion that there are really three tapes in the RSX "DECnet"
distribution - a "generic" network tape (that's the one with NETMOV.DAT
(which unfortunately I don't have), a DECnet specific tape (which seems to
be the one tape I do have) and a PSI network tape (which I think is
optional).
Can any RSX wizard confirm this?
Hmm. You're running an "old" version of RSX are you? :-)
Yeah, it used to be two parts, and both had to be copied in, if I remember
correctly. It's been a while since I used one of those...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hello!
I would comment, but Johnny did me the favor of doing so. However
there's a <BLEEP!> load of items related to what we discuss here
roosting on Trailing-Edge's sites.
For example there is the (mirrored) site for the pdp-11 (PDP-11) site,
and they also have an FTP site, ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com in there
that's where I found enough software to make me want to find a
PDP-11/53 start doing something. (I still haven't.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
