Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Could you get RSTS/E V10? If so, you could run DDCMP over an async
terminal line.
paul
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
That should actually be pretty simple. Much more simple than any other kind of networking. Anyone should pretty much be able to hack that one together as long as they know just a little about programming for sockets, and have a basic understanding of ethernet.
No strange things needs to be done in relationship with any OS.
(I've been talking with John Wilson about adding this to E11 in the past as well...)
Johnny
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a
variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is
living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated.
I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running
as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi
box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not
set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to
remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Mark Abene wrote:
Minor correction: I log into TINA on a semi-regular basis.
It isn't very well maintained (read, ghost machine), but it's very much
reachable by telnet and always up when I try.
Ok. I should have perhaps said that the plans for TINA is to one day get her connected on HECnet as well, but right now she is on another ethernet segment, and not bridged to the rest, so HECnet connectivity in that case is down. It don't mean that the machine as such is down. As the text said: "unreachable". :-)
I just did a
NCP SHO NOD 1.*
to get a list, on which I then made comments on machines that I'm somewhat associated with.
Johnny
-Mark
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living
in HECnet lives in software?
Let's see now. Among the systems I manage...
1.1 (MAGICA) Unreachable
A real 11/70. Only powered on intermittently, but standing ready by the
turn of the key. Used to be running 24/7 until a few years ago. Services
were moved over to MIM.
1.2 (ERNIE) Unreachable 0 4
A real 11/84. Running 2.11BSD as I write this, but running RSX when on
HECnet.
1.3 (FNATTE) Unreachable
A real 11/73. Running RSX. I doubt I'll resurrect that one.
1.4 (GOBLIN) Unreachable
A uVAX 3500. But I think it has been lost to history.
1.5 (ZEKE) Unreachable
This was a VAX 6440. Decomissioned.
1.6 (GNOME) Unreachable
A real VAXstation 3100/76
1.7 (BJARNE) Unreachable
AlphaStation 255. Currently not in running order, but nothing seriously
wrong with it.
1.8 (KRILLE) Unreachable
A real VAX-8650. Almost ready by just turning a key as well. Same place
as MAGICA. We have a budget "problem" as well as a cooling problem,
which is why the machine isn't doing much. To run it, I might need to
reconnect a console, as well as separately turning on the cabinets with
disks in them, and the HSC-90.
1.9 (TEMPO) Unreachable
Linux
1.10 (SIGGE) Unreachable
A real VAX-7720. We should upgrade it to an 7810 sooner or later. We
should have the cpu card somewhere... Running in short order, much like
KRILLE.
1.11 (ROCKY) Unreachable
AlphaServer 7000. Decomissioned.
1.12 (PONY) Unreachable
AS2100. Decomissioned.
1.13 (MIM)
Emulated (E11). Pretends it's an 11/74. Up 24/7.
1.14 (TINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. (Really Bjorn Victors responsibility.)
1.15 (PONDUS) Reachable 0 4 UNA-0 1.15 (PONDUS)
A real 11/93. Normally running 24/7.
1.16 (GNAT) Unreachable 0 4
VAXstation 4000/90. Sometimes on, sometimes off.
1.17 (JOSSE) Unreachable 0 30
PC running Windows XP.
1.18 (PAMINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. Also Bjorn Victor.
1.19 (BEA) Unreachable 0 30
A real PRO-380 running P/OS.
1.20 (KNASE) Unreachable
Another real 11/70. We have some problem with that machine right now. I
think it's a power supply, but we haven't had time to work on it for a
while.
We have a third 11/70 as well, which we haven't really looked through
yet. Might do something with that one eventually.
Well, that's what I know. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Mark Wickens wrote:
Hi guys,
I have a couple of 4000/90s and a 4000/60 at least one of which I'd like to get onto HECnet in the near future. Could someone let me know if the router software will compile and run ok under netbsd, as I have a low-power box running that 24/7 at the moment, so this would be the ideal option for me.
Since NetBSD actually is what I'm (still) running myself, the answer is very much yes. :-)
Johnny
Well,
As the box is on 24/7 and I'm currently running off a 56k modem I thought I'd give it a whirl - compiles fine, not sure what to do next (I copied bridge.conf.orig and edited the [bridge] section to contain 'local ex0' - ex0 being the ethernet device - am I at least along the right lines?) I get an 'Error opening device' if I try $ bridge 50000 as a normal user, and possibly (in the unix philosophy) a nicer reply (ie nothing) if I run it as root with the same port number).
All good things to try from a caravan with the wind howling. I can turn my VAX or remotely, so we could have had this cracked by this evening, except that both the glass and the bottle are almost empty...
Mark.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:48:34PM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
DDCMP. I suppose it should work, if I hook it to the E-11 based
system and have that be a router.
I've done that in the past over internet, if you are interested.
I remember that. :)
That was.... uhm, a *lot* of years ago. That's when you and I first
started really getting HECnet together.
Ah, memories. :)
-brian
--
"Coding in C is like sending a 3 year old to do groceries. You gotta
tell them exactly what you want or you'll end up with a cupboard full of
pop tarts and pancake mix." -- IRC User (http://www.bash.org/?841435)
Minor correction: I log into TINA on a semi-regular basis.
It isn't very well maintained (read, ghost machine), but it's very much
reachable by telnet and always up when I try.
-Mark
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living
in HECnet lives in software?
Let's see now. Among the systems I manage...
1.1 (MAGICA) Unreachable
A real 11/70. Only powered on intermittently, but standing ready by the
turn of the key. Used to be running 24/7 until a few years ago. Services
were moved over to MIM.
1.2 (ERNIE) Unreachable 0 4
A real 11/84. Running 2.11BSD as I write this, but running RSX when on
HECnet.
1.3 (FNATTE) Unreachable
A real 11/73. Running RSX. I doubt I'll resurrect that one.
1.4 (GOBLIN) Unreachable
A uVAX 3500. But I think it has been lost to history.
1.5 (ZEKE) Unreachable
This was a VAX 6440. Decomissioned.
1.6 (GNOME) Unreachable
A real VAXstation 3100/76
1.7 (BJARNE) Unreachable
AlphaStation 255. Currently not in running order, but nothing seriously
wrong with it.
1.8 (KRILLE) Unreachable
A real VAX-8650. Almost ready by just turning a key as well. Same place
as MAGICA. We have a budget "problem" as well as a cooling problem,
which is why the machine isn't doing much. To run it, I might need to
reconnect a console, as well as separately turning on the cabinets with
disks in them, and the HSC-90.
1.9 (TEMPO) Unreachable
Linux
1.10 (SIGGE) Unreachable
A real VAX-7720. We should upgrade it to an 7810 sooner or later. We
should have the cpu card somewhere... Running in short order, much like
KRILLE.
1.11 (ROCKY) Unreachable
AlphaServer 7000. Decomissioned.
1.12 (PONY) Unreachable
AS2100. Decomissioned.
1.13 (MIM)
Emulated (E11). Pretends it's an 11/74. Up 24/7.
1.14 (TINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. (Really Bjorn Victors responsibility.)
1.15 (PONDUS) Reachable 0 4 UNA-0 1.15 (PONDUS)
A real 11/93. Normally running 24/7.
1.16 (GNAT) Unreachable 0 4
VAXstation 4000/90. Sometimes on, sometimes off.
1.17 (JOSSE) Unreachable 0 30
PC running Windows XP.
1.18 (PAMINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. Also Bjorn Victor.
1.19 (BEA) Unreachable 0 30
A real PRO-380 running P/OS.
1.20 (KNASE) Unreachable
Another real 11/70. We have some problem with that machine right now. I
think it's a power supply, but we haven't had time to work on it for a
while.
We have a third 11/70 as well, which we haven't really looked through
yet. Might do something with that one eventually.
Well, that's what I know. :-)
Johnny
Mark Wickens wrote:
Hi guys,
I have a couple of 4000/90s and a 4000/60 at least one of which I'd like to get onto HECnet in the near future. Could someone let me know if the router software will compile and run ok under netbsd, as I have a low-power box running that 24/7 at the moment, so this would be the ideal option for me.
Since NetBSD actually is what I'm (still) running myself, the answer is very much yes. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Well it compiled and runs fine on OS X which is quite BSD-y, so it probably works under netbsd.
This might be pointless speculation however :)
Sampsa
On 20 Aug 2009, at 22:03, Mark Wickens wrote:
Hi guys,
I have a couple of 4000/90s and a 4000/60 at least one of which I'd like to get onto HECnet in the near future. Could someone let me know if the router software will compile and run ok under netbsd, as I have a low-power box running that 24/7 at the moment, so this would be the ideal option for me.
Regards, Mark.
