I seem to remember ethernet not being added until v10.
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Yeah. WIth RSTS/E V8, asynch DDCMP is out of the quesion.
Does it support ethernet?
Hmm, what phase is it?
Johnny
Mark Abene wrote:
Unfortunately, given my preference to using RSTS/E v8, I must use
DECnet/E v2.0. Those DECnet drivers only support a DMC or DMR device
(seen as "XM" in RSTS), or a DMP or DMV device (seen as "XD" in RSTS).
Based on what you're saying, the patch would not solve this problem?
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Yes.
Or rather, the terminal driver contains an implementation of the DDCMP
protocol. So it can talk to async DDCMP devices -- just as RSX did
for years. Until V10, DECnet/E only did DMC/DMR type DDCMP devices.
On a Pro, which has a USART (not UART) console port, it even speaks
sync DDCMP if you want so it can talk to a DMC or DMR (and that works,
I tested it). On other PDP-11s it will use any of the async lines and
speak async DDCMP.
paul
Yeah. WIth RSTS/E V8, asynch DDCMP is out of the quesion.
Does it support ethernet?
Hmm, what phase is it?
Johnny
Mark Abene wrote:
Unfortunately, given my preference to using RSTS/E v8, I must use
DECnet/E v2.0. Those DECnet drivers only support a DMC or DMR device
(seen as "XM" in RSTS), or a DMP or DMV device (seen as "XD" in RSTS).
Based on what you're saying, the patch would not solve this problem?
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Yes.
Or rather, the terminal driver contains an implementation of the DDCMP
protocol. So it can talk to async DDCMP devices -- just as RSX did
for years. Until V10, DECnet/E only did DMC/DMR type DDCMP devices.
On a Pro, which has a USART (not UART) console port, it even speaks
sync DDCMP if you want so it can talk to a DMC or DMR (and that works,
I tested it). On other PDP-11s it will use any of the async lines and
speak async DDCMP.
paul
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Jason's "patch" is actually playing ethernet for you. So, even without any separate machine with the bridge program on, or even without a real ethernet port on your machine, your simh can have a simulated ethernet, which hooks into my bridge program, making the simh machine appear to be on the virtual ethernet segment created by the bridge program.
Johnny
Mark Abene wrote:
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd
clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the
2nd....
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Unfortunately, given my preference to using RSTS/E v8, I must use
DECnet/E v2.0. Those DECnet drivers only support a DMC or DMR device
(seen as "XM" in RSTS), or a DMP or DMV device (seen as "XD" in RSTS).
Based on what you're saying, the patch would not solve this problem?
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Yes.
Or rather, the terminal driver contains an implementation of the DDCMP
protocol. So it can talk to async DDCMP devices -- just as RSX did
for years. Until V10, DECnet/E only did DMC/DMR type DDCMP devices.
On a Pro, which has a USART (not UART) console port, it even speaks
sync DDCMP if you want so it can talk to a DMC or DMR (and that works,
I tested it). On other PDP-11s it will use any of the async lines and
speak async DDCMP.
paul
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Yes.
Or rather, the terminal driver contains an implementation of the DDCMP
protocol. So it can talk to async DDCMP devices -- just as RSX did
for years. Until V10, DECnet/E only did DMC/DMR type DDCMP devices.
On a Pro, which has a USART (not UART) console port, it even speaks
sync DDCMP if you want so it can talk to a DMC or DMR (and that works,
I tested it). On other PDP-11s it will use any of the async lines and
speak async DDCMP.
paul
Sorry to report, but DECnet/E on RSTS/E v8 has no support for networking
over such devices. Else I would've done this years ago. Remember *v8*.
Not 9, and not Mentec. :)
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Mark Abene wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Huh? What do you mean simh don't support any DDCMP-aware devices. You do
know that DDCMP can be run over asyncronous serial lines do you?
This means as long as you can emulate something like a DL11, DZ11, DH11,
or any other stupid serial port, you'll be able to play DDCMP.
Atleast if you are running RSX. Because the next question is what your
OS on your simulated machine can talk DDCMP over, which is a relevant
question here. :-)
Johnny
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd
clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the
2nd....
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Yeah, if I didn't think that every version of RSTS after v8 is a total
abomination. :) I run v8 on purpose, because I actually used to use it
back in the 80's. It's the last "pure" version, before DEC turned it
into crap to make VMS people happy.
-M
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Could you get RSTS/E V10? If so, you could run DDCMP over an async
terminal line.
paul
Mark Abene wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Huh? What do you mean simh don't support any DDCMP-aware devices. You do know that DDCMP can be run over asyncronous serial lines do you?
This means as long as you can emulate something like a DL11, DZ11, DH11, or any other stupid serial port, you'll be able to play DDCMP.
Atleast if you are running RSX. Because the next question is what your OS on your simulated machine can talk DDCMP over, which is a relevant question here. :-)
Johnny
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
It was pretty simple too...!
I kept my notes here:
http://gunkies.org/wiki/Networking_with_SIMH#HECnet
And as you can see... it was pretty easy.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
That should actually be pretty simple. Much more simple than any other kind of networking. Anyone should pretty much be able to hack that one together as long as they know just a little about programming for sockets, and have a basic understanding of ethernet.
No strange things needs to be done in relationship with any OS.
(I've been talking with John Wilson about adding this to E11 in the past as well...)
Johnny
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a
variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is
living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated.
I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running
as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi
box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not
set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to
remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
