On 11/29/10 12:26, Sampsa Laine wrote:
As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
What is Chimpy?
I upgraded SIGGE from 256M to 1.25G a few weeks ago, and I had to run an AUTOGEN before the memory was recognized by the system (as shown by SHOW MEMORY inside VMS). The hardware saw the memory immediately, but VMS did not want to have anything to do with it before the autogen.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
So Chimpy is an emulator? Emulating which model?
Johnny
No CHIMPY is a physical AlphaServer 800, and VMS on it recognised the memory upgrade automagically.
Doh!
Actually, double DOH!
So we are talking past each other. An Alpha is not a VAX. Different rules apply.
Ignore everything I said unless you are thinking in the context of a VAX. :-)
Johnny
As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
What is Chimpy?
I upgraded SIGGE from 256M to 1.25G a few weeks ago, and I had to run an AUTOGEN before the memory was recognized by the system (as shown by SHOW MEMORY inside VMS). The hardware saw the memory immediately, but VMS did not want to have anything to do with it before the autogen.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
So Chimpy is an emulator? Emulating which model?
Johnny
No CHIMPY is a physical AlphaServer 800, and VMS on it recognised the memory upgrade automagically.
DELLVX is the emulated contraption - I wanted to be able to talk from the main host machine to the SIMH box, so I run SIMH in a VM on the main host, viz:
DELLHOST - Physical Dell laptop, running Ubuntu Desktop 10.04), runs Oracle VirtualBox:
DELLVM - Virtualised Oracle VirtualBox VM running Ubuntu Server 10.04, runs SIMH:
DELLVX - Emulated VAX running OpenVMS 7.3
This way I can connect from DELLHOST to DELLVX by network, the DELLVM is quite lightweight as it runs Ubuntu Server (like 30-40 megs overhead).
Sampsa
On 11/29/10 11:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
That's a difference between alpha and vax vms, on alpha physical_pages is not required.
I can't remember. Is there some other parameter that do the same thing on the Alpha, or will it dynamically detect and manage this on boot?
About 7.3-1, yes that is obviously a type since there is no such vms version for neither vax nor ia64.
Thanks. I was wondering if I had missed something.
The last vaxes, the 7000 and 10000 series supported 4 GB physical memory. I wasn't aware of more than 32 address bits in the hardware.
Well, earlier VAXen only support 30 physical address bits. The NVAX supports either 30 or 34 physical address bits (software selectable which mode it should operate in). How many address pins actually were brought out from the CPU chip, as well as out from the CPU card, I don't know, which is why I said "in theory".
It might be that the 7000 and 10000 only supported a max of 4 GB, but that would be a restriction of the physical design in that case. The extension of the VAX MMU done for the NVAX brought the size of an address up to 34 bits.
Johnny
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:45:13
To:<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think. As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 11/29/10 10:45, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think.
Ah. :-)
As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
What is Chimpy?
I upgraded SIGGE from 256M to 1.25G a few weeks ago, and I had to run an AUTOGEN before the memory was recognized by the system (as shown by SHOW MEMORY inside VMS). The hardware saw the memory immediately, but VMS did not want to have anything to do with it before the autogen.
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
That is one of the things AUTOGEN will do for you, yes. :-)
As always, you do not need to run AUTOGEN, you can always trim the parameters yourself if you want to. After all, that is all that AUTOGEN do as well.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
So Chimpy is an emulator? Emulating which model?
Johnny
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
That's a difference between alpha and vax vms, on alpha physical_pages is not required.
About 7.3-1, yes that is obviously a type since there is no such vms version for neither vax nor ia64.
The last vaxes, the 7000 and 10000 series supported 4 GB physical memory. I wasn't aware of more than 32 address bits in the hardware.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:45:13
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think. As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think. As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:07 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hello!
I believe you are right. Sampsa, what in the Name of the Force, and
the fellows who mind Time, are you running VMS under? Simh was ported
to Alpha, it's not happy there, but it works.
And I do recall a reference to an Alpha emulator, its only problem was
one of scarcity. No not the one you told us about not too long ago, a
different one.
--
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs, which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
