On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:07 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hello!
I believe you are right. Sampsa, what in the Name of the Force, and
the fellows who mind Time, are you running VMS under? Simh was ported
to Alpha, it's not happy there, but it works.
And I do recall a reference to an Alpha emulator, its only problem was
one of scarcity. No not the one you told us about not too long ago, a
different one.
--
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs, which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs, which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Oh, is that what you meant with "code-fu", I didn't understand that!
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:03:12
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Yes they are, but I don't have the coding skills or time to develop a JIT for it :)
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:59, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
The simh sources are freely available, aren't they?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:20:32
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
If I had the code-fu, I'd love to write a JIT for SIMH, imagine the performance we could get out of it with that...
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:18, Mark Wickens wrote:
Still doesn't run as fast as a 3 Ghz NVAX processor. Oh wait, that was only in my dreams....
(did some rough-as comparisons a while back and came to the conclusion that Intel Core Duo and VAX processors were roughly the same performance Hz to Hz).
Mark.
3.8 VUPS for the 3900 only!
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:05:44 -0500
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Sampsa,
What kind of a laptop and what OS are you running? The 3900 series systems ran about 38 VUPs and the 780 ran at 1 VUP...
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:54
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
That worked!
Cool, I now have a 14 VUPS laptop with 512 megs of RAM. Just trying to get DECWINDOWS to work, I'm assuming I can get it to display remotely even though it has no graphics hardware built in, right?
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:49, H Vlems wrote:
The VAX 11/780 may well have been limited to just 32 MB, I can t remember.
Try modifying PHYSICAL_PAGES, perhaps the microcode that comes with simh was modified.
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag, november 2010 21:46 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Ah, bummer - what about the 11/780? Sampsa On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:44, Steve Davidson wrote: > Sampsa, > > I'm pretty sure that the 3900 series machines only supported 64MB max > and that is what you are emulating. > > -Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On > Behalf Of Sampsa Laine > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:41 > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness > > Still only seeing 64 MB in the OS.... > > Sampsa > > > On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:27, Oleg Safiullin wrote: > >> On 29.11.2010 2:20, Sampsa Laine wrote: >>> I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from > 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) > still reports 64 MB. >>> >>> Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How > much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway? >>> >>> Sampsa >>> >>> >> >> Try to replace ka655.bin firmware with the following file: >> >> http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/ka655x.bin >
Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1170 / Virusdatabase: 426/3285 - datum van uitgifte: 11/28/10
Yes they are, but I don't have the coding skills or time to develop a JIT for it :)
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:59, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
The simh sources are freely available, aren't they?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:20:32
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
If I had the code-fu, I'd love to write a JIT for SIMH, imagine the performance we could get out of it with that...
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:18, Mark Wickens wrote:
Still doesn't run as fast as a 3 Ghz NVAX processor. Oh wait, that was only in my dreams....
(did some rough-as comparisons a while back and came to the conclusion that Intel Core Duo and VAX processors were roughly the same performance Hz to Hz).
Mark.
The simh sources are freely available, aren't they?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:20:32
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
If I had the code-fu, I'd love to write a JIT for SIMH, imagine the performance we could get out of it with that...
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:18, Mark Wickens wrote:
Still doesn't run as fast as a 3 Ghz NVAX processor. Oh wait, that was only in my dreams....
(did some rough-as comparisons a while back and came to the conclusion that Intel Core Duo and VAX processors were roughly the same performance Hz to Hz).
Mark.
I don't know if it's worth mentioning but you get a good 20-30% speed increase going to a 64bit host/build of SIMH, and a few more points beyond that for rebuilding most of SIMH with -O2 ... I found a couple things that broke in -O2 that work in -O1... it should have been in the simh list.
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Well, I'm not planning on doing anything particularly serious on it, just thought a "VAX" laptop that boots into CDE would be fun to have..
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:52, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
A 90A runs at 83 MHz and is rated at 40~42 VUPS. The 90 is somewhat slower. A laptop is also slower than a pc, its cpu runs at two thirds the clockspeed of a desktop. And when its cpu is utilized at 100% (as simh does) then the box heats up considerably. For sustained use a laptop may not be the desired platform. BTW I guess that simh is restricted to run on a single core. You'll probably see 50% cpu utilization for the simh process.
A faster single core might improve things.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:16:15 +0000
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Sure - but I thought a VAXstation 4000/90 got like 40ish VUPS, whilst my relatively recent Core 2 Duo + SIMH only get about 14?
I wonder how much faster say CHARON VAX would be, I gather it's quite thoroughly optimised?
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:13, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
When you run the PDP-11 simulator on a fast host then it willl blow the socks off any hardware PDP-11. The same applies for the VAX of course. Even with the burden of a host OS a 3 GHz Pentium has excess power to simulate a VAX whose own cpus's ran well below 200 MHz. And simh wasn't even optimized because it runs on a multitude of hosts.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:14:33 +0000
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Dell Latitude E6500 (it's a Core 2 Duo at 2.5 GHz I think), running Ubuntu Desktop, Oracle VirtualBox and Ubuntu Server inside the VM, then I run SIMH inside the Ubuntu server - this way the main host OS and the SIMH install can talk to each other over the network.
I get about 7 VUPS on my Mac Mini (a 1.66 GHz Core Duo), so the 14 VUPS is about right, a 2.5 GHz Core 2 is about twice as fast as a 1.6 GHz Core...
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 21:05, Steve Davidson wrote:
Sampsa,
What kind of a laptop and what OS are you running? The 3900 series systems ran about 38 VUPs and the 780 ran at 1 VUP...
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:54
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
That worked!
Cool, I now have a 14 VUPS laptop with 512 megs of RAM. Just trying to get DECWINDOWS to work, I'm assuming I can get it to display remotely even though it has no graphics hardware built in, right?
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:49, H Vlems wrote:
The VAX 11/780 may well have been limited to just 32 MB, I can t remember.
Try modifying PHYSICAL_PAGES, perhaps the microcode that comes with simh was modified.
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag, november 2010 21:46 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Ah, bummer - what about the 11/780? Sampsa On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:44, Steve Davidson wrote: > Sampsa, > > I'm pretty sure that the 3900 series machines only supported 64MB max > and that is what you are emulating. > > -Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On > Behalf Of Sampsa Laine > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:41 > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness > > Still only seeing 64 MB in the OS.... > > Sampsa > > > On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:27, Oleg Safiullin wrote: > >> On 29.11.2010 2:20, Sampsa Laine wrote: >>> I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from > 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) > still reports 64 MB. >>> >>> Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How > much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway? >>> >>> Sampsa >>> >>> >> >> Try to replace ka655.bin firmware with the following file: >> >> http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/ka655x.bin >
Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1170 / Virusdatabase: 426/3285 - datum van uitgifte: 11/28/10
The VAX ran at slightly lower speeds than a Pentium I at the time. Its performance got higher performance marks. Both are CISC designs that makes them comparable but the VAX instruction set was very rich and designed for 32 bit address space. The Pentium showed its heritage there (and possibly still does). I do wonder how a VAX cpu made in a current technology woulld perform.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:18:25 +0000
To: <hecnet at update.uu.se>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Still doesn't run as fast as a 3 Ghz NVAX processor. Oh wait, that was only in my dreams....
(did some rough-as comparisons a while back and came to the conclusion that Intel Core Duo and VAX processors were roughly the same performance Hz to Hz).
Mark.
