On 2011-07-01 02:02, Mark Benson wrote:
I have most of the issues with SIMH sorted out apart from one.
I ran up a couple of 4.8GB images using:
dd if=/dev/zero of=vaxvmsssys.iso bs=512 count=9600000
in Net BSD.
I then set the SIMH emulator up with:
set -L rq0 rauser=9600000
attach rq0 /sdcard/d0.dsk
Using info from here: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/922
Which was a little vague, to say the least.
It all seemed to work fine. The disk works okay. However, it ran out of space by the time I'd installed VMS 7.3 (including DECwindows/MOTIF support, which I wanted for possible future remote graphical access) and tried to install TCP/IP UCX onto the system. I don't know how to check free space on a device, so I can't see the total blocks available compared to the original dd'd file. I wouldn't have thought VMS would fill a 4.8 GB disk though? It's supposed to install comfortable on an RA92 and that was only 1.2 or 1.6 GB IIRC.
RA92 is 1.4G.
To check free space on your disks: "SHO DEV D"
And yes, 4.8GB should be more than enough. Not sure what is going on...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
My startup procedure actually does a redirect to the "5'th" NetBSD terminal. That terminal becomes the console "OPA0:".
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Jason Stevens
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 19:11
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
I always like to run them from screen.. Then you can attach to the console etc etc...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
Mark,
This is a VERY easy setup. Start your SimH process from rc.local. Be sure to put the "&" at the end of the line. I can send you what I have if need be.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Benson
Sent: Thu 6/30/2011 08:57
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
> Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Figures. You can only run SIMH with networking as root. Might explain it.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 10:56, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>
> Hans
> Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
>
> "File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
>
> Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
>
> I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
>
> FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
> <this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
>
> It's all good fun!
>
> --
> Mark Benson
>
> http://markbenson.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/MDBenson
>
> On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>> What error message did you get?
Yeah, the one thing that annoys me about screen with Terminal.app is that the window scrolling no longer works, something to do with how screen reformats the control chars..
sampsa
On 1 Jul 2011, at 01:06, Mark Benson wrote:
On 1 Jul 2011, at 00:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Seconded - I run GORVAX's SIMH in a screen..
Tis a good plan, I will do that when I actually get to an established production stage.
I love screen - with the right switched it can be used as a basic serial terminal too which is damned handy on a MacBook Air using a KeySpan adapter and Mac OS X - I did the re-install on my Alpha that way :) Only place it fell over was the character map went to hell when I used EVE. I may not have explicitly done a
'SET TERM/VT100' beforehand though...
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
On 1 Jul 2011, at 00:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Seconded - I run GORVAX's SIMH in a screen..
Tis a good plan, I will do that when I actually get to an established production stage.
I love screen - with the right switched it can be used as a basic serial terminal too which is damned handy on a MacBook Air using a KeySpan adapter and Mac OS X - I did the re-install on my Alpha that way :) Only place it fell over was the character map went to hell when I used EVE. I may not have explicitly done a
'SET TERM/VT100' beforehand though...
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
Running as root cleared up the ethernet issue. It now attaches just fine. Was error 'File open issue' so it couldn't access it as a non-privileged user.
attach xq ra0
The device is re0 not ra0, for the record.
On 30 Jun 2011, at 23:01, Steve Davidson wrote:
This is how SGC:: works today. It is running NetBSD, SimH, and VAX/VMS 7.3. Save yourself tons of grief and use two NICs. One NIC is for NetBSD (IP) the other is for VMS (DECnet and/or IP). Bring the second NIC up under NetBSD but do NOT assign an IP address to it. If you wish you can run the bridge on this same machine or run Multinet with its tunnels.
Issue is the machine is physically tiny (mounts on the VESA points on the back of my LCD panel) and, although it has a PCI slot I could throw a 3C905 in, it has no back panel access. The power connector for the PicoPSU is actually right where a possible ethernet connector might be.
USB LAN is a possible option but I don't want to choke the USB bus as I use a SD crd carry the disk images and I don't want to upset the I/O to/from the images. You know how finicky USB can be :P
I can give you access to the SGC:: host machine so that you take a look if you wish. Just let me know.
I have most of the issues with SIMH sorted out apart from one.
I ran up a couple of 4.8GB images using:
dd if=/dev/zero of=vaxvmsssys.iso bs=512 count=9600000
in Net BSD.
I then set the SIMH emulator up with:
set -L rq0 rauser=9600000
attach rq0 /sdcard/d0.dsk
Using info from here: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/922
Which was a little vague, to say the least.
It all seemed to work fine. The disk works okay. However, it ran out of space by the time I'd installed VMS 7.3 (including DECwindows/MOTIF support, which I wanted for possible future remote graphical access) and tried to install TCP/IP UCX onto the system. I don't know how to check free space on a device, so I can't see the total blocks available compared to the original dd'd file. I wouldn't have thought VMS would fill a 4.8 GB disk though? It's supposed to install comfortable on an RA92 and that was only 1.2 or 1.6 GB IIRC.
I probably screwed something up somewhere, but without knowing what, I can't either get access to the full disk or re-install to a full size disk.
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
Seconded - I run GORVAX's SIMH in a screen..
Sampsa
On 1 Jul 2011, at 00:10, Jason Stevens wrote:
I always like to run them from screen.. Then you can attach to the console etc etc...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
Mark,
This is a VERY easy setup. Start your SimH process from rc.local. Be sure to put the "&" at the end of the line. I can send you what I have if need be.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Benson
Sent: Thu 6/30/2011 08:57
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
> Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Figures. You can only run SIMH with networking as root. Might explain it.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 10:56, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>
> Hans
> Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
>
> "File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
>
> Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
>
> I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
>
> FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
> <this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
>
> It's all good fun!
>
> --
> Mark Benson
>
> http://markbenson.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/MDBenson
>
> On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>> What error message did you get?
I always like to run them from screen.. Then you can attach to the console etc etc...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
Mark,
This is a VERY easy setup. Start your SimH process from rc.local. Be sure to put the "&" at the end of the line. I can send you what I have if need be.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Benson
Sent: Thu 6/30/2011 08:57
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
> Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Figures. You can only run SIMH with networking as root. Might explain it.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 10:56, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>
> Hans
> Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
>
> "File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
>
> Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
>
> I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
>
> FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
> <this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
>
> It's all good fun!
>
> --
> Mark Benson
>
> http://markbenson.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/MDBenson
>
> On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
>
>> What error message did you get?
Mark,
This is a VERY easy setup. Start your SimH process from rc.local. Be sure to put the "&" at the end of the line. I can send you what I have if need be.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Benson
Sent: Thu 6/30/2011 08:57
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Figures. You can only run SIMH with networking as root. Might explain it.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 10:56, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
"File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
<this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
It's all good fun!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
What error message did you get?
Mark,
This is how SGC:: works today. It is running NetBSD, SimH, and VAX/VMS 7.3. Save yourself tons of grief and use two NICs. One NIC is for NetBSD (IP) the other is for VMS (DECnet and/or IP). Bring the second NIC up under NetBSD but do NOT assign an IP address to it. If you wish you can run the bridge on this same machine or run Multinet with its tunnels.
I can give you access to the SGC:: host machine so that you take a look if you wish. Just let me know.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Benson
Sent: Thu 6/30/2011 04:33
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
Has anyone ever run SIMH out of NetBSD? I'm curious as to how to link the Ethernet to the LAN device (ra0) on my D410 board.
It fails if I use:
attach xq ra0
OR
attach xq /dev/ra0
So not sure what to assign it to...
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:05, Fausto Saporito <fausap at libero.it> wrote:
Hello,
the TCPIP package is on the CD, and you have to install after the installation.
Before, you have to change some system parameters.
A good guide is http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Here you can find all the instructions to set up your sistem.
Fausto
On 30.6.2011 17:51, Mark Benson wrote:
On 30 Jun 2011, at 14:40, Johnny Billquist<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
. However, most people just find it overly complex to manage compared to DECnet IV, without any tangible benefits.
I will need to look at reconfiguring my Alpha I think. Contemplating changing the disks around in it anyway so might try and get it right on re-install.
You do as you please, of course. I think Johnny is somewhat exaggerating about the DECnet-plus management. It is not _that_ difficult to handle. Many others claim that it is too complex, but IMHO the point is that the design and philosophy is different from DECnet Phase IV.
It's like having a box camera and a system camera; you can take pictures with both, but when you want to fine tune your pictures or take pictures in other conditions than in sunshine you need a system camera.
You have a much better and accurate control of what's happening within your DECnet stack in every layer. In the integrated implementation you have OSI as well right out-of-the-box. I've never seen another OSI implementation which has such a detailed and comprehesive management. It is a masterpiece. No wonder it was used in really big companies. DEC used it in its worldwide internal network (called the Easynet), of course. And it worked like a charm.
In fact the Phase IV was way too limited for bigger networks. In many companies there were needed to do tricks to get all needed nodes attached to the network. After Phase V was implemented, all limitations were gone.
Then came TCP/IP and mixed up everything, but that's another story. :)
Why not play around with DECnet-plus when you already have it installed and working?
As for the "problems" with NetBSD, I think I saw that you figured out that simh needs to be run as root for it to work. That should be pretty obvious, since it would be a big security problem if everyone was allowed to sniff the ethernet cables at will. Also, it is "ra0" and not "/dev/ra0". Ethernet device names are not paths that exist in the file system. It should be obvious if you actually do an ls on /dev... There isn't any /dev/ra0 (well, unless you happen to run a VAX with NetBSD, in which case ther
e would be a /dev/ra0[a-h] for a disk drive.
NetBSD's /dev is very confusing - a whole lot of nodes exist for hardware that isn't there (as far as I can see).
I was clutching at straws. :)
Yes, both simh and the machine itself can share the same ethernet port, with the possible problem of talking between those two entities. But from other machines, there will not be any problems (this is not an aspect of the pcap library, but actually a thing related to the Berkley packet filter (bpf) which pcap use, and also to the underlying ethernet driver and possibly the hardware itself).
However, there is in general a bigger problem with simh, NetBSD and DECnet, in that DECnet expects to be able to change the MAC address of the ethernet interface
SIMH uses a separate MAC address that is specified in the bootstrap configuration. I'd imagine (I don't know for sure) that DECNet's MAC control would alter this value, not require altering the hardware embedded MAC of the NIC. The two instances appear to outside Ethernet devices as separate entities as far as I can tell.
As for compiling, yes, the pcap library have to be around already at compile time, or the compilation will fail (obviously). Not withstanding shared libraries and all that, the header files, which are also installed along with the pcap library itself, are needed for compilation. And at link time, the library is checked for some information at that time also. That said, libpcap is a standard component of NetBSD, and there is no need to install another version from pkgsrc.
It may have pulled it in as a dependancy via pkgsrc. I know it compiled and installed 4 packages.
Well, not really. Linux and Unix are written by different people, but they are based on the same basic design. VMS and WNT was designed by the same person, but not designed in the same way.
Anyone using one Unix system will feel pretty much at home with any other Unix system. Yes, some details differs, but almost everything will be the same, down to using the same shell, similary file system layout, and so on... Try that between VMS and WNT if you dare... :-)
It was only a joke. ;) ;)
I hostnamed my new Windows PC 'cutler' - I needed a name and as it's running a spiritual successor of NT I thought it was appropriate ;)
