On 30/06/11 08:25, Kari Uusim ki wrote:
On 30.6.2011 10:10, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi guys.
(apologies if this arrives twice - it's way too early in the morning and I got woken up even ealier!)
Still never got to fixing the DECW setup on the Alpha. Will sort that some time, maybe. Got to work out how to get files off the machine. :)
I have a second OpenVMS project now. I have an Atom D410PT system (Mini-ITX board) with a 16GB SSD and a SD card reader that runs NetBSD 5.1 and SIMH. I have successfully bootstrapped SIMH and OpenVMS 7.3-1 (I think it's -1 not sure, definitely 7.3) onto a virtual disk. So now I have a silent, power efficient machine with which to get up to speed on OpenVMS basics. I can also backup the disk images periodically so if I make a blunder it's a no-brainer to get the working system back.
First barrier I hit is TCP/IP. I don't think the 7.3 Install script ever asked me to install it. It asked for DECNet-Plus (which I declined) and DECNet-PhaseIV (which I gladly accepted) but no TCP/IP support. Did I do something wrong or is it a separate install on VAX? It was included with 8.3 Alpha.
When I try to:
SET DEF SYS$MANAGER
@TCP$CONFIG.COM
It barfs and says the file is not found. I have licences registered for UCX and UCX-IP-CLIENT. If TCP/IP was installed it would surely have just failed on a license issue if the license wasn't in place, though?
--
On a semi-related note I noticed something installing 7.3 that it said not to install DECNet-Plus if you want to use DECNet-PhaseIV. Since HECNet is PhaseIV I didn't install Plus on the VAX EMulator, but I *did* IIRC on the Alpha. Will the Alpha need a re-install or reconfiguration of some kind to run on HECNet?
Hi,
The last VAX-VMS version is V7.3. There has never been a V7.3-1 for VAX, but only for Alpha.
You need to install TCP/IP separately. It can be done from the V7.3 VAX-VMS media. That version isn't the latest so if you want to install the latest, you have to use a later SPL media.
Both DECnet-plus and DECnet Phase IV work similarly, but the configuration and management is quite different. DECnet-plus offers OSI and TCP/IP integration with DECnet (e.g. DECnet-over-TCP/IP).
You don't need to change your Alpha installation if you just want to run DECnet. If you did configure DECnet-plus for just DECnet use, you'll be fine with it.
I don't know if the DECnet-over-TCP/IP functionality will work with HECnet, because I haven't had time to test it, but pure DECnet should work fine.
Kari
See these instructions for details on what you need to do: http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Regards, Mark.
On 30.6.2011 10:10, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi guys.
(apologies if this arrives twice - it's way too early in the morning and I got woken up even ealier!)
Still never got to fixing the DECW setup on the Alpha. Will sort that some time, maybe. Got to work out how to get files off the machine. :)
I have a second OpenVMS project now. I have an Atom D410PT system (Mini-ITX board) with a 16GB SSD and a SD card reader that runs NetBSD 5.1 and SIMH. I have successfully bootstrapped SIMH and OpenVMS 7.3-1 (I think it's -1 not sure, definitely 7.3) onto a virtual disk. So now I have a silent, power efficient machine with which to get up to speed on OpenVMS basics. I can also backup the disk images periodically so if I make a blunder it's a no-brainer to get the working system back.
First barrier I hit is TCP/IP. I don't think the 7.3 Install script ever asked me to install it. It asked for DECNet-Plus (which I declined) and DECNet-PhaseIV (which I gladly accepted) but no TCP/IP support. Did I do something wrong or is it a separate install on VAX? It was included with 8.3 Alpha.
When I try to:
SET DEF SYS$MANAGER
@TCP$CONFIG.COM
It barfs and says the file is not found. I have licences registered for UCX and UCX-IP-CLIENT. If TCP/IP was installed it would surely have just failed on a license issue if the license wasn't in place, though?
--
On a semi-related note I noticed something installing 7.3 that it said not to install DECNet-Plus if you want to use DECNet-PhaseIV. Since HECNet is PhaseIV I didn't install Plus on the VAX EMulator, but I *did* IIRC on the Alpha. Will the Alpha need a re-install or reconfiguration of some kind to run on HECNet?
Hi,
The last VAX-VMS version is V7.3. There has never been a V7.3-1 for VAX, but only for Alpha.
You need to install TCP/IP separately. It can be done from the V7.3 VAX-VMS media. That version isn't the latest so if you want to install the latest, you have to use a later SPL media.
Both DECnet-plus and DECnet Phase IV work similarly, but the configuration and management is quite different. DECnet-plus offers OSI and TCP/IP integration with DECnet (e.g. DECnet-over-TCP/IP).
You don't need to change your Alpha installation if you just want to run DECnet. If you did configure DECnet-plus for just DECnet use, you'll be fine with it.
I don't know if the DECnet-over-TCP/IP functionality will work with HECnet, because I haven't had time to test it, but pure DECnet should work fine.
Kari
Hi guys.
(apologies if this arrives twice - it's way too early in the morning and I got woken up even ealier!)
Still never got to fixing the DECW setup on the Alpha. Will sort that some time, maybe. Got to work out how to get files off the machine. :)
I have a second OpenVMS project now. I have an Atom D410PT system (Mini-ITX board) with a 16GB SSD and a SD card reader that runs NetBSD 5.1 and SIMH. I have successfully bootstrapped SIMH and OpenVMS 7.3-1 (I think it's -1 not sure, definitely 7.3) onto a virtual disk. So now I have a silent, power efficient machine with which to get up to speed on OpenVMS basics. I can also backup the disk images periodically so if I make a blunder it's a no-brainer to get the working system back.
First barrier I hit is TCP/IP. I don't think the 7.3 Install script ever asked me to install it. It asked for DECNet-Plus (which I declined) and DECNet-PhaseIV (which I gladly accepted) but no TCP/IP support. Did I do something wrong or is it a separate install on VAX? It was included with 8.3 Alpha.
When I try to:
SET DEF SYS$MANAGER
@TCP$CONFIG.COM
It barfs and says the file is not found. I have licences registered for UCX and UCX-IP-CLIENT. If TCP/IP was installed it would surely have just failed on a license issue if the license wasn't in place, though?
--
On a semi-related note I noticed something installing 7.3 that it said not to install DECNet-Plus if you want to use DECNet-PhaseIV. Since HECNet is PhaseIV I didn't install Plus on the VAX EMulator, but I *did* IIRC on the Alpha. Will the Alpha need a re-install or reconfiguration of some kind to run on HECNet?
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
Mark,
Please post the file:
SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT
Then
$ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT MEMORY.TMP
$ SHOW MEM/FILE/FULL/ALL/PAGE
Then
$ DEFINE/USER/SYS$OUTPUT DECW.TMP
$ SHOW LOG DECW$*
Post the files MEMORY.TMP and DECW.TMP or send the whole thing to me
directly and I'll see what I can come up with.
If you have IP or DECnet running I can come in and look directly.
Regards,
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 18:52
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Introduction
On 18 Jun 2011, at 09:21, H Vlems wrote:
Now I have a couple of VMS systems running which greatly improves my
aging memory ;-) And will keep my electricity meter spinning a lot
faster too.
Sorry about the slow response, I have been doing a lot of RTFM and
trying to get used to the system. I also bought a HP zx6000 Itanium
workstation, but that's an aside for later ;)
The contents of the DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM file:
$ set verify
$ decw$server_page_file== 160000
$ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280
$ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 1024
$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_pixel_depth 24 $
define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 75 $ set noverify
I got back to this eventually today. Still no luck. If I use your config
as you printed it it still crashes the whole machine dead at boot and I
have to enter a minimal boot and pull the file out to get any luck
booting again. Same as before.
I don't get what's goin on. :(
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
On 18 Jun 2011, at 09:21, H Vlems wrote:
Now I have a couple of VMS systems running which greatly improves my aging
memory ;-) And will keep my electricity meter spinning a lot faster too.
Sorry about the slow response, I have been doing a lot of RTFM and trying to get used to the system. I also bought a HP zx6000 Itanium workstation, but that's an aside for later ;)
The contents of the DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM file:
$ set verify
$ decw$server_page_file== 160000
$ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280
$ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 1024
$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_pixel_depth 24
$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 75
$ set noverify
I got back to this eventually today. Still no luck. If I use your config as you printed it it still crashes the whole machine dead at boot and I have to enter a minimal boot and pull the file out to get any luck booting again. Same as before.
I don't get what's goin on. :(
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
On 17 Jun 2011, at 12:00, Mark Wickens wrote:
On 17/06/11 11:55, Mark Benson wrote:
Even if you don't recreate the license database every year, as far as I can see the license file is just a (DCL?) script that runs 'LICENSE REGISTER' for each License you are granted. 5 mins and a decent editor and you could easily create one to rip out each license by name too, right? Can LICENSE do that? I think it can IIRC.
IIRC the issue is when you start getting multiple licenses for the same product name, as you then have to differentiate them by application date/expired status.
There was a DCL procedure on either comp.os.vms or VMS Hobbyist site which you could run against any database and it would remove all expired licenses. That's the lazy approach. I like it ;)
Apparently you can purge history records inthe License Database 9after backing it up, of course) using:
LICENSE DELETE /STATUS=EXTINCT *
Is that what we were looking for to remove expired licenses?
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
IP: you need a UCX license or a NET-APP-SUP-250 (or higher number) license loaded.
Next set def sys$manager and
@tcpip$config
Note this assumes that you've installed TCPIP along with VMS. It's an optional item to install like DECnet.
The DEC IP stack supports telnet, ftp and xdm.
Filesystem: yes I understand what you mean. I run two Tru64 unix systems and a linux box and have the same problems with those as you now have with VMS :-)
The two OSes are not that dissimilar even though initial appearances might be deceiving.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:17:54
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Introduction
On 18 Jun 2011, at 08:43, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Is the alpha on the network and does it have IP running?
Not yet. I need to get on that. I get twitchy having enterprise hardware with no LAN. I assume one it's on a LAN I can telnet or SSH it?
Did you already learn about search paths? A logical name like sys$manager translates to sys$sysdevice:[sys0.sysmgr] but also to another logical name: sys$startup. Which translates to another directory (to improve confusion).
Ah. Yes, see what I mean. As a long time UNIX nerd the filesystem doesn't seem so 'logical' to me :)
EDIT doesn't work you said. How about
SET TERM/DEV=vt100
EDIT whatever
Yep that would have been it. I complained the CRT (maybe meant terminal) wasn't ANSI enabled. Would have worked if i'd told it it was a VT100 terminal. Thanks :)
I should know that, a lot of UNIXs require terminal spec at login in single user mode too.
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
On 18 Jun 2011, at 08:43, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Is the alpha on the network and does it have IP running?
Not yet. I need to get on that. I get twitchy having enterprise hardware with no LAN. I assume one it's on a LAN I can telnet or SSH it?
Did you already learn about search paths? A logical name like sys$manager translates to sys$sysdevice:[sys0.sysmgr] but also to another logical name: sys$startup. Which translates to another directory (to improve confusion).
Ah. Yes, see what I mean. As a long time UNIX nerd the filesystem doesn't seem so 'logical' to me :)
EDIT doesn't work you said. How about
SET TERM/DEV=vt100
EDIT whatever
Yep that would have been it. I complained the CRT (maybe meant terminal) wasn't ANSI enabled. Would have worked if i'd told it it was a VT100 terminal. Thanks :)
I should know that, a lot of UNIXs require terminal spec at login in single user mode too.
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
Sorry Mark in my previous post I made an error in the private server
filename which made the example rather pointless.
It should have been this:
$ dir sys$startup:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM
Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]
DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM;11
Total of 1 file.
The contents were alright.
Now I have a couple of VMS systems running which greatly improves my aging
memory ;-) And will keep my electricity meter spinning a lot faster too.
The contents of the DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM file:
$ set verify
$ decw$server_page_file== 160000
$ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280
$ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 1024
$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_pixel_depth 24
$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 75
$ set noverify
The file ought to be in: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]
The set verify and set noverify commands are similar to ECHO ON and OFF in
DOS.
When the script is found by the startup procedure then you'll notice its
output on the console.
To clarify the logicalname problem you're having in deleting and copying the
private server file, have a look at this:
$ dir sys$manager:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM
%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found
$ dir sys$startup:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM
%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found
$ sho log sys$manager
"SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
$ sh log sys$startup
"SYS$STARTUP" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
= "SYS$MANAGER"
1 "SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
$
VMS owes a lot of its flexibility to the logical name concept. Logical names
are more than just an easy to remember and fixed label for a system property
that will use different hardware with all kinds of physical names.
SYS$STARTUP is a logical name AND a search list. It translates first to
sys$sysroot:[sys$startup] where sys$sysroot is yet another logical name.
If the file is not found there, it will in turn look in sys$manager.
While copying, deleteing or modifying (edting) files you'd better change the
default directory to the real directory where the file actually resides in.
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Mark Benson
Verzonden: zaterdag, juni 2011 9:27
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Introduction
On 18 Jun 2011, at 08:08, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
OK, that's clear. After breakfast I will post more.
deleting a file under vms requires:
- the full name
- sufficient rights and/or privileges
A full filename means that the version numver must be included.
DEL X.X wont work while DEL X.X;2 will
Wildcards are permitted.
If it is a security setting, try DIR/SEC *.COM. The protection is given
for 4 (system) O (owner) G (group) or W (world).
Can you post the command you entered?
Yeah I read up and worked out the version thing
DELETE SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM (obviously didn't work)
DELETE SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM;
DELETE SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM;*
Non worked. All reported the file wasn't there (but by a different path
which I can't recall) I was in Minimal boot mode (which cunningly you don't
seem to be able to use the EDIT command in).
I think I need to dig out an ethernet card for my terminal machine (old
Toshiba Sat Pro laptop with a real serial port) so I can copy this stuff out
of the terminal into e-mails better.
Just to clarify as a default install OpenVMS did no create this file, I had
to manually copy SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.TEMPLATE over to
SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER-SETUP.COM to create it. This is covered in
the HP docs and by Steve Hoffman.
--
Mark Benson
My Blog:
<http://markbenson.org/blog>
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/mdbenson
"Never send a human to do a machine's job..."
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