On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 15 Jul 2011, at 12:38, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mark, running a vt100 80 x 24 screen on a blackberry (not a Torch) is problematic.
OTOH 20 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of being able to power down an XP1000 sitting on my couch and using a phone as a remote terminal!
Oh don't get me wrong, it's cool that you can do it and I have used it a few times. For basic terminal stuff its great. I have my HP Microserver set up to allow SSH from external IPs via myy firewall so I can SSH there then Telnet into my SimH VAX from my phone :D
On the same count however, a lot of DEC text based apps like EVE and Notes (I think?) Use mimetic pad and F-key functions which are a struggle on phone-based clients.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
Hello!
Mark can you provide a pointer to this HP Microserver?
And go ahead and roll on the floor laughing, but I've been tempted to
track down a PDP-11, when I first saw and actually wanted a PDP-8 to
work with. My father convinced me that doing so would be problematic
because the poor thing had only 8K of core based memory.
Is our friend behind the E11 subscribed here? He'll know what style of
wire wrapping based board I have here. It's designed for the PDP-11, I
think it might be the Q-Bus style one....
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 15 Jul 2011, at 12:38, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mark, running a vt100 80 x 24 screen on a blackberry (not a Torch) is problematic.
OTOH 20 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of being able to power down an XP1000 sitting on my couch and using a phone as a remote terminal!
Oh don't get me wrong, it's cool that you can do it and I have used it a few times. For basic terminal stuff its great. I have my HP Microserver set up to allow SSH from external IPs via myy firewall so I can SSH there then Telnet into my SimH VAX from my phone :D
On the same count however, a lot of DEC text based apps like EVE and Notes (I think?) Use mimetic pad and F-key functions which are a struggle on phone-based clients.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 15/07/11 12:44, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
The first DEC system I worked with was a pdp-11/40. It had a CR11, an LP11, one RK05, an RX01 and a DECtape I unit. It did have MMU but just 32 kB core, which was expanded to 64 KB core. That allowed KED to run with RT-11 (V3, V4).
I did experiment with RSX-11D but preferred RT-11. The pdp served in a laboratory, it got an LPS-11 interface later on.
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
OK, so we need someone to code a trigger a the notes server to post to the email list and write an email gateway that will process emails and add notes posts. Best of both worlds. Now who will step up to the plate?
Sounds like the kind of crazed idea that Sampsa gets involved in ;)
Mark.
The first DEC system I worked with was a pdp-11/40. It had a CR11, an LP11, one RK05, an RX01 and a DECtape I unit. It did have MMU but just 32 kB core, which was expanded to 64 KB core. That allowed KED to run with RT-11 (V3, V4).
I did experiment with RSX-11D but preferred RT-11. The pdp served in a laboratory, it got an LPS-11 interface later on.
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
Mark, running a vt100 80 x 24 screen on a blackberry (not a Torch) is problematic.
OTOH 20 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of being able to power down an XP1000 sitting on my couch and using a phone as a remote terminal!
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:32:11
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] PDP Ignorance
On 15 Jul 2011, at 12:24, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
A notes server would be fine. Answering maillists on a blackberry is problematic. The thing only allows new text between the header and the original text, i.e. forces top posting.
WTH Is it with mobile devices doing that :( I have to cut and paste my sig on nearly every mailing lust when I answer on iPhone :(
There is a terminal emulator available for it, vt100 compatible so VAXnotes* is fine.
Using a terminal emulator on a phone is torture, seriously. I have Telnet and SSH clients on iPhone and even though they offer extra keys it's not enough to be usable :(
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 15 Jul 2011, at 12:24, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
A notes server would be fine. Answering maillists on a blackberry is problematic. The thing only allows new text between the header and the original text, i.e. forces top posting.
WTH Is it with mobile devices doing that :( I have to cut and paste my sig on nearly every mailing lust when I answer on iPhone :(
There is a terminal emulator available for it, vt100 compatible so VAXnotes* is fine.
Using a terminal emulator on a phone is torture, seriously. I have Telnet and SSH clients on iPhone and even though they offer extra keys it's not enough to be usable :(
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
A notes server would be fine. Answering maillists on a blackberry is problematic. The thing only allows new text between the header and the original text, i.e. forces top posting.
There is a terminal emulator available for it, vt100 compatible so VAXnotes* is fine.
Hans
* couldn't resist that ;-)
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
CORAL66 is an Algol descendant. IIRC it was a prerequisite for defense contractors in the UK.
Hans
PS
Apologies for top posting but this stream is getting quite long on a phone to read..
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning <paul_koning at dell.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:52:30
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] PDP Ignorance
On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
Mark,
Rare - probably depends on where you can look! :-)
RT-11 will run on any of the PDP-11's. The RSX-11 family of OS's has
specific requirements about memory amounts and memory management thus
the SPD should be reviewed. RSTS/E (and M+) require memory management
hardware.
RSTS V4 (not /E) runs on a non-MMU machine, but it's very limited -- Basic-Plus only.
The Pro-Series of systems could also be looked at for RT-11 and RSX
(P/OS). In this space the Pro-380 is probably preferred. The problem
here is finding a network card (DECNA) that does not cost as much (or
more) than the rest of the system.
Indeed. And they are quite slow because of the pathetic architecture. Also, all you get is the console display, unless you can find one of the 4-line UART cards that is so obscure that it's hard even to find a manual for it, or a reference to its name (it's PC3XC-BA... I had to look for that).
I did a RSTS port, but that wasn't distributed.
Disks on real hardware will be small and slow (an possibly expensive).
On emulated systems they can be much bigger and many many times faster.
The books you have detail the degree of expandability for each of these
HW platforms (except maybe the Pro). You will be surprised at just how
much can be done with these systems. The speed will be another story.
Pro expansion is possible in theory, out of the question in practice. The needed details are undocumented in critical places.
RT-11 Languages (from memory):
MACRO-11
APL-11
BASIC-11
MU/BASIC-11
BASIC-PLUS/RT-11
FORTRAN-IV (FORTRAN 66 STD)
PDP-11/C
DECUS-C
Also (via DECUS): Forth and Algol
RSX-11 Languages (also from memory):
MACRO-11
APL-11
BASIC-PLUS-2
FORTRAN-IV (FORTRAN 66 STD)
FORTRAN-77
PDP-11/C
DECUS-C
COBOL-81, COBOL-11
And Coral-66, whatever that is.
RSTS/E Languages (also from memory):
The same as RSX-11 for the most part.
That, plus BASIC-PLUS (the ancestor of BASIC-PLUS-2, but an interactive interpreter). And Forth (a port of the RT one with FIG-Forth features added, included in the most recent releases, unsupported). There was a port of DECUS Algol but some of the pieces may have gotten lost; I had it at DEC but I can't find some of the pieces, at least not all the sources. Also Dibol.
And don't forget TECO, for any PDP-11 and any OS (except DOS and probably DSM).
paul
On 15/07/11 10:59, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2011-07-15 11.00, Kari Uusim ki wrote:
On 15.7.2011 4:36, Johnny Billquist wrote:
[...]
But since this is now starting to spin off into rather much PDP-11
stuff, maybe we should get this to some other place as well?
Anyone have any good suggestions? Otherwise I'd suggest alt.sys.pdp11 on
internet news.
Johnny
.
There seems to be many interesting discussions popping up every now and
then. Would a DEC Notes solution be a feasible one? Very easy to use and
as it supports DECnet it will be available for anyone on HECnet.
...who is running VMS... ;-)
But in a way yes, Notes would work just fine as well.
I could also create a separate list where we could move discussions that are not of general HECnet nature, but anything that spins off from here, and to which people who really want to, could subscribe to.
Johnny
As much as I'd like an an 'age-appropriate' solution in the form of a Notes discussion I'd say that a separate email list would be more practical day-to-day for most people.
Good idea. Seconded.
Mark.
On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:59, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I could also create a separate list where we could move discussions that are not of general HECnet nature, but anything that spins off from here, and to which people who really want to, could subscribe to.
I wholeheartedly support this motion, mostly for the sake of everyone else ;)
DEC-discuss list, maybe?
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
