On 2011-07-16 17.28, Steve Davidson wrote:
While it is true that HP does not officially support Alpha's as routers
(according to their web site), it works just fine!
Actually, they are supported as level 1 routers, just not level 2 (area) routers.
I suspect, but do not know for sure, that this was more of a marketing
ploy to push Itanium over Alpha.
Eh? This was the case from day 1, when Alpha was introduced, and noone had yet ever heard the word "Itanium".
If you go the emulated route (i.e. VAX 3900) this becomes a non-issue as
VAXen ARE supported as DECnet routers.
Yes. And so are for instance PDP-11s. (With the right OS.) :-)
Johnny
On 2011-07-16 17.23, Steve Davidson wrote:
Mark,
When I install DECnet on VMS I always use the DNVETRTG license. This way
I do not have to care about the system's role - I may change it at will
Assuming you have that license, it obviously makes your life easier, yes.
On another note, the node SGC:: is an emulated system that is always
running as an area router. This way I always have a gateway to the rest
of HECnet and the cost to run the system is minimal. DECnet has limits
as to the total number of area routers so just adding a router may not
be the best answer. The HECnet backbone is not at that limit yet... If
you were to use an emulated system as a router then it would not matter
which of the other systems you brought up - they would all be able to
see the rest of HECnet.
As far as I know, there is no limit on the number of area routers in a DECnet. But for a specific node, there is a limit on how many adjacent broadcast routers it can keep track of. But that is both level 1 and level 2 routers. And it just becomes a "problem" for you locally in that you might not be using the optimal route to destinations if there are more routers available, as your machine will not keep track of all of them in that case, and might miss the optimal one. But the network will still work just fine.
I should mention though that a cluster with a cluster alias MUST be a
router. It can be a level-1 or level-2 (area) though...
Indeed.
Johnny
The restriction was for level-1 (or circuit) routing and was introduced when the Alpha was new (no Itanium yet, Alpha was king of the hill). Ethernet was to be the network for all sites.
AFAIK there is still no DDCMP support for decnet on alpha.
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From: "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:28:12 -0400
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] DECnet routing on Alpha platforms
While it is true that HP does not officially support Alpha's as routers (according to their web site), it works just fine! I suspect, but do not know for sure, that this was more of a marketing ploy to push Itanium over Alpha. If you go the emulated route (i.e. VAX 3900) this becomes a non-issue as VAXen ARE supported as DECnet routers. -Steve
The Montagar licenses include all the DECnet licenses. There is no reason to limit yourself (today) to endnode functionality. SHOW NETWORK(/OLD) gives useful information.
I'm not sure what the router rules are. There are 63 areas, each with one actove area router. There may be more routers configured as an area router in one area; the one with the highest (?) DECnet address is selected as the active one.
There are limits on the number of routers. There are counters in NCP, executer max circuits and exec maximum routers.
On first generation VAX systems routing overhead was deemed too high. IMO this may be the case with 11/750's and slower but a MicroVAX II could easily keep up with the traffic on a LAN with more than 1100 decnet hosts in 8 areas.
Hans
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From: "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:23:46 -0400
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] DECnet et al
Mark, When I install DECnet on VMS I always use the DNVETRTG license. This way I do not have to care about the system's role - I may change it at will On another note, the node SGC:: is an emulated system that is always running as an area router. This way I always have a gateway to the rest of HECnet and the cost to run the system is minimal. DECnet has limits as to the total number of area routers so just adding a router may not be the best answer. The HECnet backbone is not at that limit yet... If you were to use an emulated system as a router then it would not matter which of the other systems you brought up - they would all be able to see the rest of HECnet. I should mention though that a cluster with a cluster alias MUST be a router. It can be a level-1 or level-2 (area) though... -Steve
While it is true that HP does not officially support Alpha's as routers (according to their web site), it works just fine! I suspect, but do not know for sure, that this was more of a marketing ploy to push Itanium over Alpha. If you go the emulated route (i.e. VAX 3900) this becomes a non-issue as VAXen ARE supported as DECnet routers. -Steve
Mark, When I install DECnet on VMS I always use the DNVETRTG license. This way I do not have to care about the system's role - I may change it at will On another note, the node SGC:: is an emulated system that is always running as an area router. This way I always have a gateway to the rest of HECnet and the cost to run the system is minimal. DECnet has limits as to the total number of area routers so just adding a router may not be the best answer. The HECnet backbone is not at that limit yet... If you were to use an emulated system as a router then it would not matter which of the other systems you brought up - they would all be able to see the rest of HECnet. I should mention though that a cluster with a cluster alias MUST be a router. It can be a level-1 or level-2 (area) though... -Steve
On 2011-07-16 00.56, Mark Wickens wrote:
On 15/07/11 23:48, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mc ncp def exec type area
Mc ncp set exec state off
@sys$manager:startnet
Provided of course that you have the correct PAK loaded:
dvnetrtg
Net-app-sup-400
Many thanks, the magic runes provided worked, and I can now see the rest
of the hecnet world.
Hurrah! Maybe I should end now on a high ;)
Btw. From MIM, the whole of area 4 is unreachable... :-(
Johnny
On 15/07/11 23:48, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mc ncp def exec type area
Mc ncp set exec state off
@sys$manager:startnet
Provided of course that you have the correct PAK loaded:
dvnetrtg
Net-app-sup-400
Many thanks, the magic runes provided worked, and I can now see the rest of the hecnet world.
Hurrah! Maybe I should end now on a high ;)
Cheers, Mark.
On Alpha the DECnet License including routing is called DVNETEXT and DVNETRTG on VAX.
On 16.7.2011 1:48, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Mc ncp def exec type area
Mc ncp set exec state off
@sys$manager:startnet
Provided of course that you have the correct PAK loaded:
dvnetrtg
Net-app-sup-400
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wickens<mark at wickensonline.co.uk>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:30:49
To:<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Area configuration
The VAX isn't turned on. I can turn it on and try this, but I would expect
the connection to then succeed.
What I'd really like to be able to do is have both Alpha and VAX
configured to act as area routers, so that I can have either switched on
independently, and not have them rely on each other.
There may be an unlikely situation where both are switched on at the same
time, is it an unsupported configuration to have two area routers enabled
at the same time?
I'm presuming setting a box up as an area router requires a sequence of
NCP commands?
Thanks for the help, Mark
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
You always need one area router to connect to nodes outside your area.
With one exception: on a lan with no decnet routers present, nodes can connect irrespective what area tjey're in.
So you need the bridge program AND an area router for yet another decnet node to see all the others.
If your vax is the area router (try mc ncp sho exeec char) does the alpha connect to the vax?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Mark Wickens
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] Area configuration
Verzonden: 16 juli 2011 00:12
Hi, SteveD is the best person to answer this question, but I'm not sure
whether he's about at the moment.
I'm in my own area, area 4, and I normally run a VAX, BUBBLE which I
believe does area routing.
I'm setting up an Alpha system, but am currently unable to see any other
areas via hecnet. For the most part, either the Alpha or VAX will be
running, but not both.
Do I need to setup the Alpha as an area router also?
Thanks for the help, Mark.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
Mc ncp def exec type area
Mc ncp set exec state off
@sys$manager:startnet
Provided of course that you have the correct PAK loaded:
dvnetrtg
Net-app-sup-400
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:30:49
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Area configuration
The VAX isn't turned on. I can turn it on and try this, but I would expect
the connection to then succeed.
What I'd really like to be able to do is have both Alpha and VAX
configured to act as area routers, so that I can have either switched on
independently, and not have them rely on each other.
There may be an unlikely situation where both are switched on at the same
time, is it an unsupported configuration to have two area routers enabled
at the same time?
I'm presuming setting a box up as an area router requires a sequence of
NCP commands?
Thanks for the help, Mark
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
You always need one area router to connect to nodes outside your area.
With one exception: on a lan with no decnet routers present, nodes can connect irrespective what area tjey're in.
So you need the bridge program AND an area router for yet another decnet node to see all the others.
If your vax is the area router (try mc ncp sho exeec char) does the alpha connect to the vax?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Mark Wickens
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] Area configuration
Verzonden: 16 juli 2011 00:12
Hi, SteveD is the best person to answer this question, but I'm not sure
whether he's about at the moment.
I'm in my own area, area 4, and I normally run a VAX, BUBBLE which I
believe does area routing.
I'm setting up an Alpha system, but am currently unable to see any other
areas via hecnet. For the most part, either the Alpha or VAX will be
running, but not both.
Do I need to setup the Alpha as an area router also?
Thanks for the help, Mark.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
