On 10-10-2011 17:49, Mark Wickens wrote:
Randomly found this site: http://vms.cc.wmich.edu/www/openvms.html
Nice example of VMS still out in the wild...
What do you mean by 'still'?
- MG
uBLISS made it to (internal) field-test. I don't remember how much
further it got. That's how I got a chance to use it. No commitment was
made as to how much of a subset would finally be delivered but at the
time I did not care. I thought that even as slow as it was it was a
blast to play with. I remember submitting uBLISS jobs to RSX-11M-PLUS
systems (ASTRIX:: and OBELIX::), (Corporate Operations Group, Software
Services), while doing real work. It worked for me!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Tim Sneddon
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 15:57 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of
the status
of
Micro-BLISS was a BLISS compiler that ran on the PDP-11.
However, it was not at all successful. Given the size of the
BLISS compiler much of the optimisations, etc. had to be
removed to make it all fit. I don't believe it was actually
completed as a project.
that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for
the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
PDP-11 BLISS was either written on a PDP-10 or VAX. The
PDP-11 Fortran IV compiler was written in BLISS-11. DECnet
was written in the Common BLISS dialect.
Tim.
Internally, that compiler was known as BLISS-16C (C for cross-compiler).
The TRANSF utility in RT-11 was eventually written in BLISS-16C (and
common BLISS) so that one source pool could be maintained across the
various operating systems (RT-11, RSX-11, VAX/VMS).
EDT (I was the project leader for V3.10) used BLISS-16C for the builds
on RSX-11M, IAS-11, and RSTS/E (RSX run-time environment) and BLISS-32
(eventually BLISS-64) for VMS.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:14
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
All of RMS-11 is written in BLISS-16. Parts of the RSX kernel
is written in BLISS-16, and also parts of DECnet-RSX is
written in BLISS-16.
Cross-compiled on VMS, and the result transferred back to the
RSX system for the full build. Listings and stuff from the
BLISS-16 compiles are distributed as a part of the RSX distribution.
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 16.01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11
software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68
compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original
perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition,
though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of
the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not
use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other
one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and
don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may
take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some,
and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far
away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
uBLISS was a subset and VERY slow, but... It worked on the 11's. I got
the chance to play with it for a day and despite the speed (or lack
thereof) I thought it had promise.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 09:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the
status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use
it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and
don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may
take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some,
and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 15:57 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of
Micro-BLISS was a BLISS compiler that ran on the PDP-11. However, it
was not at all successful. Given the size of the BLISS compiler much
of the optimisations, etc. had to be removed to make it all fit. I
don't believe it was actually completed as a project.
that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the
Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
PDP-11 BLISS was either written on a PDP-10 or VAX. The PDP-11
Fortran IV compiler was written in BLISS-11. DECnet was written in
the Common BLISS dialect.
Tim.
All of RMS-11 is written in BLISS-16. Parts of the RSX kernel is written in BLISS-16, and also parts of DECnet-RSX is written in BLISS-16. Cross-compiled on VMS, and the result transferred back to the RSX system for the full build. Listings and stuff from the BLISS-16 compiles are distributed as a part of the RSX distribution.
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 16.01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11 software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68 compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some, and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a
PDP-10.
BLISS-11 was also a differently language too, albeit slightly. When DEC
adopted BLISS they just had to change some of the syntax to make it their
own.
Likewise there was a BLISS-10 and a BLISS-36. And there was a BLISS-32
for VAXen, although AFAIK there was never a cross compiler for that version
and there was never a BLISS-10/11 equivalent for it. BLISS-32 was of
course used fairly extensively for VMS.
Bob
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11 software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68 compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some, and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX (VMS)
generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the compiler that
ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)? BLISS-16C while hard
to find may be available, the other one I have only seen (and used) once
in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled
with BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it
some, and I have a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution
CDs are far away, and I don't know if I have BLISS in there,
but I thought I'd start by asking here before I try to get
access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
