My comments on booting a decserver in combination with the ncp database are limited to VMS. And fairly old versions of VMS. Of course RSX responds faster since it doesn't need/use that overhead.
When Sampsa tried to boot his DS200 its load request messages showed up on my LAN. Nothing arrived in time for the DS200 apparently. My uplink is fairly slow so that could be the cause.
That aside, a question Johnny. VMS and ncp will only service a load host request if the mac address of the target host is registered and thus known. Does RSX service the request provided it can locate the requested filename?
It was not my intention to support a dedicated area, 13 or whichever. My point was that decservers be kept in local areas. Given the way VMS, ultrix-32 and Tru64 respond that makes sense
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:18:31
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined - area 13
On 2011-12-22 10:22, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
As everybody here knows, Decservers don't use decnet but needed an entry in the ncp database for MOM to figure
out where the software was to be found. Later on LANCP was introduced for that purpose.
Actually not really true. Or maybe that is true for VMS then. It is not
true for RSX. RSX boots DECservers happily without any information in
the nodename database.
And you can also connect to the admin serial port with MOP without
having an entry in the nodename database.
Since we're not exactly short of areas, let alone node addresses there's no reason why we cannot reserve an area
for them. OTOH I doubt we'll boot a decserver across the bridges (perhaps Sampsa will try that). So I'll keep my
DS100 in area 44, it is 44.8 (ASTAAT, At).
We're not short on either, but we are definitely much closer to running
out of areas than node numbers. At the moment, we are standing at 28
allocated areas, soon to be atleast 29. That is close to 50%.
But I'll leave area 13 alone for now, to make you happy. :-)
And for your information, MIM regularly boots DECservers over the
bridge... Mine and Updates, but occasionally also others. And RSX
normally starts booting a DECserver before VMS have even started
thinking about the request. :-)
To quote a piece of the RSX kernel:
;+
; If we cannot process a clock interrupt within 10 seconds, we are
; no longer processing in real time, and we may as well become
; a VAX ... Call an end to this ... NOW!
;-
BGCK$A BF.SAN,BE.IDC,<FATAL> ;;; System massively confused
:-)
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist<bqt at softjar.se>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 04:11:10
To:<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-22 04:04, Steve Davidson wrote:
Two things:
First I would like to continue to reserve area 13. All the
documentation about DECserver management refers to it.
Could you point me to some of that documentation? I've not seen any of
it, and I don't really at all understand the point of even setting up
information in the nodename database for DECservers, which don't even
speak DECnet to begin with. (And I do have DECservers up and running, as
well as manuals...)
I know that, from a convenience point of view, you can use the name as a
short cut for specifying the MAC address and circuit, but having an area
reserved for such a simple detail seems excessive.
Second SG1 is a VS4000/30 (VLC). It is small, quiet, and cheap to run -
all very important features. If I remember correctly, LEGATO is the
same platform for the exact purpose. The only difference between my
Multnet "gateway" is that it can accommodate dynamic-DNS at the other
end.
Cool. I guess that platform should be enough to handle normal HECnet
traffic even if we grow some more.
How do you deal with dynamic IP addresses?
PS One more network is in the wings. You should be getting email about
it soon enough if you have not already.
Nothing yet.
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:58 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
Current list as of right now:
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 22-DEC-11 03:53:33
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
2 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 6.1 (STAR69)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
44 Reachable UNA-0 44.21 (NIKKEL)
54 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
59 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
.
That is 14 areas, and I'm talking to one more guy who wants a new area,
which would bring us to 15.
Anyone object to me giving him area 13? It was asked to be reserved for
DECserver management, but I don't really see the point of having an area
for that purpose. But if you can convince me... :-)
Also, SG1:: is quite a hub from the bridge point of view. Lots of
connections coming through there. Nice. :-) What type of machine is it?
Johnny
On 2011-12-21 18:29, Steve Davidson wrote:
At the moment 13 areas are up and running - this list only show 10.
Hopefully sometime today we will be at 14. We're working on it! :-)
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 5:44 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-20 22:34, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have defined (or redefined) tunnels for areas 3 and 6 for both
GORVAX:: and SG1::. These are effective immediately. Enjoy!
Cool. Area 3 is up according to MIM. Pretty...
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 20-DEC-11 23:42:41
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2011-12-22 10:22, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
As everybody here knows, Decservers don't use decnet but needed an entry in the ncp database for MOM to figure
out where the software was to be found. Later on LANCP was introduced for that purpose.
Actually not really true. Or maybe that is true for VMS then. It is not true for RSX. RSX boots DECservers happily without any information in the nodename database.
And you can also connect to the admin serial port with MOP without having an entry in the nodename database.
Since we're not exactly short of areas, let alone node addresses there's no reason why we cannot reserve an area
for them. OTOH I doubt we'll boot a decserver across the bridges (perhaps Sampsa will try that). So I'll keep my
DS100 in area 44, it is 44.8 (ASTAAT, At).
We're not short on either, but we are definitely much closer to running out of areas than node numbers. At the moment, we are standing at 28 allocated areas, soon to be atleast 29. That is close to 50%.
But I'll leave area 13 alone for now, to make you happy. :-)
And for your information, MIM regularly boots DECservers over the bridge... Mine and Updates, but occasionally also others. And RSX normally starts booting a DECserver before VMS have even started thinking about the request. :-)
To quote a piece of the RSX kernel:
;+
; If we cannot process a clock interrupt within 10 seconds, we are
; no longer processing in real time, and we may as well become
; a VAX ... Call an end to this ... NOW!
;-
BGCK$A BF.SAN,BE.IDC,<FATAL> ;;; System massively confused
:-)
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist<bqt at softjar.se>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 04:11:10
To:<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-22 04:04, Steve Davidson wrote:
Two things:
First I would like to continue to reserve area 13. All the
documentation about DECserver management refers to it.
Could you point me to some of that documentation? I've not seen any of
it, and I don't really at all understand the point of even setting up
information in the nodename database for DECservers, which don't even
speak DECnet to begin with. (And I do have DECservers up and running, as
well as manuals...)
I know that, from a convenience point of view, you can use the name as a
short cut for specifying the MAC address and circuit, but having an area
reserved for such a simple detail seems excessive.
Second SG1 is a VS4000/30 (VLC). It is small, quiet, and cheap to run -
all very important features. If I remember correctly, LEGATO is the
same platform for the exact purpose. The only difference between my
Multnet "gateway" is that it can accommodate dynamic-DNS at the other
end.
Cool. I guess that platform should be enough to handle normal HECnet
traffic even if we grow some more.
How do you deal with dynamic IP addresses?
PS One more network is in the wings. You should be getting email about
it soon enough if you have not already.
Nothing yet.
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:58 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
Current list as of right now:
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 22-DEC-11 03:53:33
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
2 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 6.1 (STAR69)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
44 Reachable UNA-0 44.21 (NIKKEL)
54 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
59 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
.
That is 14 areas, and I'm talking to one more guy who wants a new area,
which would bring us to 15.
Anyone object to me giving him area 13? It was asked to be reserved for
DECserver management, but I don't really see the point of having an area
for that purpose. But if you can convince me... :-)
Also, SG1:: is quite a hub from the bridge point of view. Lots of
connections coming through there. Nice. :-) What type of machine is it?
Johnny
On 2011-12-21 18:29, Steve Davidson wrote:
At the moment 13 areas are up and running - this list only show 10.
Hopefully sometime today we will be at 14. We're working on it! :-)
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 5:44 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-20 22:34, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have defined (or redefined) tunnels for areas 3 and 6 for both
GORVAX:: and SG1::. These are effective immediately. Enjoy!
Cool. Area 3 is up according to MIM. Pretty...
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 20-DEC-11 23:42:41
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
As everybody here knows, Decservers don't use decnet but needed an entry in the ncp database for MOM to figure out where the software was to be found. Later on LANCP was introduced for that purpose.
Since we're not exactly short of areas, let alone node addresses there's no reason why we cannot reserve an area for them. OTOH I doubt we'll boot a decserver across the bridges (perhaps Sampsa will try that). So I'll keep my DS100 in area 44, it is 44.8 (ASTAAT, At).
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 04:11:10
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-22 04:04, Steve Davidson wrote:
Two things:
First I would like to continue to reserve area 13. All the
documentation about DECserver management refers to it.
Could you point me to some of that documentation? I've not seen any of
it, and I don't really at all understand the point of even setting up
information in the nodename database for DECservers, which don't even
speak DECnet to begin with. (And I do have DECservers up and running, as
well as manuals...)
I know that, from a convenience point of view, you can use the name as a
short cut for specifying the MAC address and circuit, but having an area
reserved for such a simple detail seems excessive.
Second SG1 is a VS4000/30 (VLC). It is small, quiet, and cheap to run -
all very important features. If I remember correctly, LEGATO is the
same platform for the exact purpose. The only difference between my
Multnet "gateway" is that it can accommodate dynamic-DNS at the other
end.
Cool. I guess that platform should be enough to handle normal HECnet
traffic even if we grow some more.
How do you deal with dynamic IP addresses?
PS One more network is in the wings. You should be getting email about
it soon enough if you have not already.
Nothing yet.
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:58 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
Current list as of right now:
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 22-DEC-11 03:53:33
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
2 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 6.1 (STAR69)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
44 Reachable UNA-0 44.21 (NIKKEL)
54 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
59 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
.
That is 14 areas, and I'm talking to one more guy who wants a new area,
which would bring us to 15.
Anyone object to me giving him area 13? It was asked to be reserved for
DECserver management, but I don't really see the point of having an area
for that purpose. But if you can convince me... :-)
Also, SG1:: is quite a hub from the bridge point of view. Lots of
connections coming through there. Nice. :-) What type of machine is it?
Johnny
On 2011-12-21 18:29, Steve Davidson wrote:
At the moment 13 areas are up and running - this list only show 10.
Hopefully sometime today we will be at 14. We're working on it! :-)
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 5:44 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
On 2011-12-20 22:34, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have defined (or redefined) tunnels for areas 3 and 6 for both
GORVAX:: and SG1::. These are effective immediately. Enjoy!
Cool. Area 3 is up according to MIM. Pretty...
.ncp sho act are
Active areas summary as of 20-DEC-11 23:42:41
Next
Area State Circuit Node
1 Reachable 1.13 (MIM)
3 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
4 Reachable UNA-0 4.249 (SLAVE)
6 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
8 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
11 Reachable UNA-0 11.2 (MAISA)
19 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
20 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
33 Reachable UNA-0 19.41 (SG1)
42 Reachable UNA-0 42.1 (CANADA)
.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Add an additional connection to Multinet for SG1. Use 69.21.253.230. I
would set your costs (because you are an "end node") as follows:
GORVAX = 3 Shortest distance and high speed
SG1 = 5 Medium distance and medium speed
LEGATO > 5 Longest distance and slower speed
It ended up being:
DECNET-CONFIG>show
Circuit Name IP Destination Cost HelloTimer
------------ --------------- ---- -----------
TCP-0-0 64.142.52.93 10 300
TCP-0-1 188.220.63.6 5 300
TCP-0-2 69.21.253.230 7 300
It;s actually a routing-IV node... -:)
My speed is limited by the Uvax2, not the network (well the dequna is
only 10Mbit...)
I have mentioned it before, but I also have a cisco router on the same
LAN that can do DECnet in IP the cisco way if anyone wan't to try.
Thanks! --P
NCP>sh know cir
Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 22-DEC-2011 09:56:51
Circuit State Loopback Adjacent
Name Routing Node
QNA-0 on 59.11 (DIMMA)
QNA-0 59.10 (SOL)
QNA-1 on
TCP-0-0 on 2.1 (LEGATO)
TCP-0-1 on 8.400 (GORVAX)
NCP>tell gorvax sh known cir
Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 22-DEC-2011 09:57:53
Circuit State Loopback Adjacent
Name Routing Node
QNA-0 on
TCP-0-19 on 19.41 (SG1)
TCP-0-2 on 2.1 (LEGATO)
TCP-0-3 on 3.171 (NUK1C)
TCP-0-33 on 33.14 (FRUGAL)
TCP-0-59 on 59.58 (STUPI)
TCP-0-6 on 6.134 (ROOSTA)
-Thanks--P
Just to let everyone know Area 6 and STAR69:: are back to operational status. I had a power outage a week or so ago and forgot STAR69:: when I powered everything back on owing to the fact it is currently hidden behind a Sun workstation.
Still it's back working again and my bridge is up and working.
Some sad news - since I was running on HECNET last time I lost COWBOX:: , my Cobalt Qube2/PDP-11 emulator - I think the mainboard or power brick is fragged :( I still have all the data on the hard disk so I need to hook it up to STAR69::'s host machine and pull the disk images and config off.
I have a plan to replace it (and then some) with a new project in 2012 which will hopefully result in the smallest, cheapest, most power efficient DEC network ever seen. I will post more plans nearer the time :)
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
If I remember right Multinet caches the IP address and does not flush it. Let's not forget that Process Software does not support anything but a reboot!
It is not that big a hit. In the future the hit will be even less when I make some changes to the startups and the hardware.
So far I have not heard of any complaints when it reboots. I suspect that no one even notices... It really does amount to noise.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Rok Vidmar
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:15 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Links defined
I have written a DCL procedure that does IP address lookups at
predetermined (configurable) intervals. If it finds a mismatched IP
address it reconfigures the the TCP-0-n (where "n" is the area - in my
case) IP address and schedules a reboot.
To avoid reboot, did you try
$ ncp set circ TCP-0-n sta off
$ multinet set/decnet/remote=new_IP_addr/device=TCPAn:/connect
$ ncp set circuit TCP-0-n state on cost 9 hello timer 300
These commands execute without error. I have no means yet to test
if remote address gets really changed.
--
Regards, Rok
I'll never forget 'logging into' my hdds for the first time. :)
You've seen _Dark Star_ ?? The first time I talked to a DSSI drive, that
image of having an existential conversation with the smart bomb kept popping
into my head :-) Too bad the RFxx firmware guys couldn't find a way to
stick Eliza in there somehow....
Bob
I have written a DCL procedure that does IP address lookups at
predetermined (configurable) intervals. If it finds a mismatched IP
address it reconfigures the the TCP-0-n (where "n" is the area - in my
case) IP address and schedules a reboot.
To avoid reboot, did you try
$ ncp set circ TCP-0-n sta off
$ multinet set/decnet/remote=new_IP_addr/device=TCPAn:/connect
$ ncp set circuit TCP-0-n state on cost 9 hello timer 300
These commands execute without error. I have no means yet to test
if remote address gets really changed.
--
Regards, Rok
