How many of us here are running under emulation?
My current configuration:
CTAKAH is an emulated PDP-11/93 (E11/Linux)
COPOKA is an emulated PDP-11/94 (SimH/OpenVMS)
KOPOBA is an emulated AlphaServer DS20 (CHARON-AXP/Win64)
CTEPBA is a real AlphaServer DS10
BIGSYS is a real PDP-11/83
Gregg Levine wrote:
How many of us here are running under emulation?
LEGATO is now emulated (has been for a year or so). It used to be a real
VAXstation-VLC, but the power costs for running even a VLC 24x7 started to
add up. An Intel Atom a) uses way less power, and b) is a much faster VAX
than any real VAX (sadly).
All the other machines here are "real", whenever they're turned on.
Bob
On 2012-07-02 03:42, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Okay.
Now the question that's worth a full Fizzbin. How many of us here are
running under emulation? This means either a SIMH PDP11 or a E11. Or
an appropriate Alpha that's done the same way.
MIM:: is an emulated PDP-11/74. PONDUS:: is a real PDP-11/93. MAGICA:: is a real PDP-11/70. GNAT:: is a real VAXstation 4000/90. KRILLE:: is a real VAX-8650. (PONDUS:: and GNAT:: are in my apartment, while the others are located at Update.)
Those are, I guess, the machines that I most often feel responsible for, even if there is a whole bunch of more machines that I guess I could claim responsibility for...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-07-02 03:17, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
Do you actually have such a thing? There was a partial implementation
for
RTS/8 that was, AFAIK, never released. I have some sources for it, but
it's
unfinished.
Bob
Hello!
About all I found was those sources, on the iBib site. And for the
other OS, no hits so far on Google.
Steve interesting story, and yes I'm not asking about those three
letter agencies.
Let me put it to all of you this way. In the book "Cuckoo's Egg" as
related by Cliff Stoll, his(?) VAXes were networked, via Ethernet all
over the campus, (either running BSD or VMS), but they were connected
to the Internet via leased lines.
And in a Doctor Who book, who's reasonably accurate on the DEC based
side of things, and lousy on the desktop side, there are PDP-11s and
possibly a few early Vaxes. and even an Eclipse.
What I am curious about is how the PDP-11s talked to DEC Net based
systems.
And which ones of the R* operating systems could be confused into
doing that, and in what ways.
Well, considering the fact that DECnet was born on the PDP-11, the question
should perhaps be rephrased as how non-PDP11 systems managed to talk on
DECnet. :-)
If the question is more on a practical note of how connections were done, I
think the original was over serial lines, but I might be wrong. Multidrop as
well as some high speed links were available in Phase III, but ethernet only
became an option with DECnet phase IV.
Not sure about the time frame for packet switched interfaces. They certainly
existed in Phase IV, but I don't know if they were available already in
phase III.
The RTS-8 DECNET/8, which was mentioned earlier, talks DECNET over a serial
line, using DDCMP.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hello!
Okay.
Now the question that's worth a full Fizzbin. How many of us here are
running under emulation? This means either a SIMH PDP11 or a E11. Or
an appropriate Alpha that's done the same way.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 2012-07-02 03:17, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
Do you actually have such a thing? There was a partial implementation for
RTS/8 that was, AFAIK, never released. I have some sources for it, but it's
unfinished.
Bob
Hello!
About all I found was those sources, on the iBib site. And for the
other OS, no hits so far on Google.
Steve interesting story, and yes I'm not asking about those three
letter agencies.
Let me put it to all of you this way. In the book "Cuckoo's Egg" as
related by Cliff Stoll, his(?) VAXes were networked, via Ethernet all
over the campus, (either running BSD or VMS), but they were connected
to the Internet via leased lines.
And in a Doctor Who book, who's reasonably accurate on the DEC based
side of things, and lousy on the desktop side, there are PDP-11s and
possibly a few early Vaxes. and even an Eclipse.
What I am curious about is how the PDP-11s talked to DEC Net based systems.
And which ones of the R* operating systems could be confused into
doing that, and in what ways.
Well, considering the fact that DECnet was born on the PDP-11, the question should perhaps be rephrased as how non-PDP11 systems managed to talk on DECnet. :-)
If the question is more on a practical note of how connections were done, I think the original was over serial lines, but I might be wrong. Multidrop as well as some high speed links were available in Phase III, but ethernet only became an option with DECnet phase IV.
Not sure about the time frame for packet switched interfaces. They certainly existed in Phase IV, but I don't know if they were available already in phase III.
The RTS-8 DECNET/8, which was mentioned earlier, talks DECNET over a serial line, using DDCMP.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
Do you actually have such a thing? There was a partial implementation for
RTS/8 that was, AFAIK, never released. I have some sources for it, but it's
unfinished.
Bob
Hello!
About all I found was those sources, on the iBib site. And for the
other OS, no hits so far on Google.
Steve interesting story, and yes I'm not asking about those three
letter agencies.
Let me put it to all of you this way. In the book "Cuckoo's Egg" as
related by Cliff Stoll, his(?) VAXes were networked, via Ethernet all
over the campus, (either running BSD or VMS), but they were connected
to the Internet via leased lines.
And in a Doctor Who book, who's reasonably accurate on the DEC based
side of things, and lousy on the desktop side, there are PDP-11s and
possibly a few early Vaxes. and even an Eclipse.
What I am curious about is how the PDP-11s talked to DEC Net based systems.
And which ones of the R* operating systems could be confused into
doing that, and in what ways.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 07/01/2012 09:10 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
Do you actually have such a thing? There was a partial implementation for
RTS/8 that was, AFAIK, never released. I have some sources for it, but it's
unfinished.
Nope, I was mistaken, Johnny corrected me. I was thinking of the
RTS/8 implementation. I'm sorry for my error.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Dave McGuire wrote
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
Do you actually have such a thing? There was a partial implementation for
RTS/8 that was, AFAIK, never released. I have some sources for it, but it's
unfinished.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 19:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] This is probably been asked already but....
On 07/01/2012 07:03 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Let's start with just the operating systems. I'm thinking
of trying
to get something running via SIMH soon, but I can't
promise anything
specific.
That really opens it up. ;) Simh emulates several
platforms for
which there are DECnet implementations:
PDP-8: there's a DECnet implementation for OS/8.
PDP-10: TOPS-10, TOPS-20
PDP-11: RSTS/E, RSX-11/M/M+
VAX: VMS, Ultrix
The PDP-8 DECnet is actually for RTS-8, and not OS/8. However, it's
also only PHASE II, so I think we could rule that one out.
Oops! My mistake, thank you for the correction. I thought
it was for OS/8. I consider myself to be a PDP-8 aficionado,
but I've never seen the DECnet implementation
For PDP-11, I think that there was also some kind of DECnet
for RT-11.
DECnet/RT was phase III only. The RT-11 group acquired the sources from
the DECnet group to update it. Unfortunately, the project was cancelled
due to funding issues. Funding went to support the ports to the
Pro-series, and BASIC-PLUS to RT-11 from RSTS/E. I started in the RT-11
group (c 1983) just as they acquired it. I was hoping to start on the
project but that was not to be... The "kit" was available on magtape
and RX50's. It was huge! It really needed to be reworked to make use
of the extended memory environment, but that was never to be.
And you have IAS, as well as (probably) RSX-11D.
IAS-11 was based on RSX-11D. It had three environments:
multi-user/multitasking like RSX, real-time like RSX (actually more like
VMS in some ways too), and a timesharing scheduler. IAS implemented the
original version of DCL! It did look in some ways like VMS (because of
DCL and the three environments), but was more RSX like than anything
else. I worked in Software Services, in Maynard. My job was to support
RSX (all flavors), IAS, VMS, RT, and a number of layered products. The
largest customers for IAS were the various three-letter groups within
the US government. I supported two of them. We will leave the names
for a different time... :-)
I don't think there was a DECnet for RT-11, but I could be wrong.
Isn't IAS basically a chopped-down RSX?
Also, I wonder if VAXELN also had DECnet?
I'd imagine so, but I'm not certain. I'd guess yes because
the firmware for some of DEC's X terminals is based on
VAXELN, and early X implementations supported X over DECnet.
And isn't there some sort of Alpha in simh as well nowadays?
Barely, but yes. It's not really far along enough to be useful yet.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Area 44 is down. I"m on holliday until 8 July
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Johnny Billquist
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Area list
Verzonden: 1 juli 2012 18:46
On 2012-07-01 18:16, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Please send out the latest copy of the AREA list to the reflector. It
would be nice to know what is real about areas, locations, and "owner".
I have currently area 7 and 8 disabled on my bridge, just FYI. Seems to
have at least stabilized things on my side.
Routing loops are bad. However, DECnet should normally be able to
resolve this, and get things right, as from a topology point of view,
DECnet can have multiple paths between nodes. Something is wrong, indeed...
The current list of the areas are on MIM::, which is shut down at the
moment, because of the issues with the computer hall. I hope to have the
machine back up and running soon...
Since GORVAX have an alternative connection, I'll keep it off at my end
for now, for trouble shooting. As things looks stable right now, it will
be interesting to turn area 7 back on and see what happens. Hold on to
your hats...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
