On 2012-07-03 03:28, Phil Mendelsohn wrote:
On 12-07-02 03:09 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I have no problems calling -11M a redo of -11D. As far as I know, it was
not done by Cutler at DuPont, but something he did after starting at
DEC. But that is just what I gathered from reading various sources over
the years... I could very well be wrong.
-11M was entirely done at DEC. -11D was brought finished from DuPont,
and was AFAIK written single-handedly by Cutler. Source may or not
reflect this; in order to stamp 'digital' on it, there may have been a
new coat of paint.
Uh...? As far as I know, Dave Cutler was not involved in -11D. Are you really sure about this? Also, DuPont writing -11D? RSX started as RSX-15 for the PDP-15, at DEC. And that was around 1972 as well. How could DuPoint have become involved and written RSX before then? I'm curious here...
DEC was headhunting around '72 - they picked up Cutler earlier because
of what he'd done at Du Pont on his own. My dad had done an OS for the
LINC-8 for the Psych dept. at Michigan State which got back to Central
Engineering through the Life Sciences people, so that's how he ended up
working with Cutler.
Cool.
And Cutler seems to have been quite a person to deal with already back
then. :-)
He didn't write -11M single handedly, but he read and signed off each
and every line of code in it. You probably know the story about how he
had a red ink stamp that said "Size Is Everything." If he could write
code tighter than what came across his desk, the proposed code was
returned to the sender with the stamp right across it. That's not
apocryphal.
I know he didn't write it single handedly, but he did write quite a lot of it. Just read through the sources... His name is at the top in quite a few places...
What isn't always told is that if you couldn't ever write tighter code
(two or three iterations), Cutler used his own - but didn't necessarily
take other names off it IIRC.
Dad was pretty full of himself when he successfully argued Cutler out of
2 *bits* in a register for the error logging subsystem. It wasn't
pigheadedness on either side, but you had to formally show something
couldn't be done with n-1 bits. Even for n=2. Absolute brutality when
it came to size.
Memory hasn't been such an issue for a long time now, and now I'm off
topic - sorry guys.
We are indeed drifting way off hecnet here. I think I'll continue this outside of the list.
I apologize for the drift as well...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 12-07-02 03:09 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I have no problems calling -11M a redo of -11D. As far as I know, it was
not done by Cutler at DuPont, but something he did after starting at
DEC. But that is just what I gathered from reading various sources over
the years... I could very well be wrong.
-11M was entirely done at DEC. -11D was brought finished from DuPont, and was AFAIK written single-handedly by Cutler. Source may or not reflect this; in order to stamp 'digital' on it, there may have been a new coat of paint.
DEC was headhunting around '72 - they picked up Cutler earlier because of what he'd done at Du Pont on his own. My dad had done an OS for the LINC-8 for the Psych dept. at Michigan State which got back to Central Engineering through the Life Sciences people, so that's how he ended up working with Cutler.
And Cutler seems to have been quite a person to deal with already back
then. :-)
He didn't write -11M single handedly, but he read and signed off each and every line of code in it. You probably know the story about how he had a red ink stamp that said "Size Is Everything." If he could write code tighter than what came across his desk, the proposed code was returned to the sender with the stamp right across it. That's not apocryphal.
What isn't always told is that if you couldn't ever write tighter code (two or three iterations), Cutler used his own - but didn't necessarily take other names off it IIRC.
Dad was pretty full of himself when he successfully argued Cutler out of 2 *bits* in a register for the error logging subsystem. It wasn't pigheadedness on either side, but you had to formally show something couldn't be done with n-1 bits. Even for n=2. Absolute brutality when it came to size.
Memory hasn't been such an issue for a long time now, and now I'm off topic - sorry guys.
Cheers,
Phil M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Gregg Levine
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 18:42
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] This is probably been asked already but....
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Dave McGuire
<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 07/02/2012 02:41 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
MRRT-11 (Memory-Resident, RT-11) is what you are trying to
think of.
You needed an RT-11 license for the load (and create) host, then
licenses for each MRRT-11 system. I used this when I was
a DEC OEM
for a while.
Is this around anywhere? It sounds like lots of fun.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Hello!
I'll say. That does sound like something I would want to try out....
Now as to your equipment collection Dave, your 11/53 running
in a different suit, you are aware it can be flipped back to a 11/53?
I'm still trying to sort out my directions for hardware and
software......
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Greg,
Bring up SimH (VAX) on a platform of your choice, then register and
acquire VMS licenses. This is the easiest way to start. More support
is available for VMS than anything else. After you get the VAX (and
VMS) up and running, connect to HECnet. From that point on it won't
really matter which direction you choose - you will be on HECnet and can
add systems as necessary.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 18:25
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] This is probably been asked already but....
On 07/02/2012 02:41 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
MRRT-11 (Memory-Resident, RT-11) is what you are trying to think of.
You needed an RT-11 license for the load (and create) host, then
licenses for each MRRT-11 system. I used this when I was a DEC OEM
for a while.
Is this around anywhere? It sounds like lots of fun.
-Dave
I have the orange docs but I can't find a kit.
-Steve
On 07/02/2012 08:23 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Who was your "sidekick"? I can't recall his name, but he's the one
across from you on the right of the exhibit space who ran the Straight
8 system and its relatives.
Oh, that was Dave Gesswein. His exhibit area was simply across the
aisle from mine. His Straight-8 was awesome.
It was time to move five years ago, but there are reasons... and more of them.
:-(
As for operating systems, can you, in your spare time present me a
list of them, off list?
Sure.
Some time ago, John Wilson, confirmed for me that his E11 systems can
be configured to accept modules that would look to the PDP-11 OS
running as if it were talking to something specialized, and not
originally part of the regular PDP-11 series of modules. (Of course
that's my phrasing and how I heard or read about.) That's how I would
start, but I'm not sure if his program could be told to work as if it
were a J11 setup or any of the others.
Hmm.
I believe it might be possible to convince (or confuse) E11 that it is
actually one of those, and running something along the lines of the
appropriate R* OS from DEC,
That might be possible. That might also be possible with simh, given
that the source code is available and it compiles on most anything.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 07/02/2012 08:10 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Does anyone run SIMH on Solaris? I've recently acquired a Sparcstation
5, and I guess it's the benchmark of a usable server-type platform for
me to be able to run SIMH on it.
I run it under Solaris on UltraSPARC-III+. Works great.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 07/02/2012 07:05 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Software? Copies of everything that Al has on his bitsavers site.
Manuals certainly, stuff he created using those wonderful tools of
his. Hardware? Got me, I've got the SIMH stuff to emulate it, and
several examples of the E11 kit.
Ahh. I have lots of OS releases that aren't on bitsavers; contact me
if you're looking for something specific. (and, erm, not ancient)
But as for goals, I originally had an idea to have a PDP11, like your
11/53 there, respond to the strange stuff I build, along the lines of
(Adam) LINC-8 and the Straight that I saw at the same time we met and
your sidekick with his collection.
Indeed, that sounds like fun.
Who was my sidekick??
Ran out of space and time, for all of that. (I won't go into the
annoying problems of funding for my daft ideas.) Right now I'm in a
problematic NYC apartment that's short on space.
Time to move!
When the "embedded PDP-11" idea surfaced in the responses earlier
today I realized that some of my ideas seemed to be doable but the
"how and why" aspect surfaced......
Well "why" is easy:
- because I can
- because I want to
The "how" part is rather more difficult, but I suspect you won't have
much trouble.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Hello!
Who was your "sidekick"? I can't recall his name, but he's the one
across from you on the right of the exhibit space who ran the Straight
8 system and its relatives.
It was time to move five years ago, but there are reasons... and more of them.
As for operating systems, can you, in your spare time present me a
list of them, off list?
Some time ago, John Wilson, confirmed for me that his E11 systems can
be configured to accept modules that would look to the PDP-11 OS
running as if it were talking to something specialized, and not
originally part of the regular PDP-11 series of modules. (Of course
that's my phrasing and how I heard or read about.) That's how I would
start, but I'm not sure if his program could be told to work as if it
were a J11 setup or any of the others.
I believe it might be possible to convince (or confuse) E11 that it is
actually one of those, and running something along the lines of the
appropriate R* OS from DEC,
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 07/02/2012 07:05 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
Software? Copies of everything that Al has on his bitsavers site.
Manuals certainly, stuff he created using those wonderful tools of
his. Hardware? Got me, I've got the SIMH stuff to emulate it, and
several examples of the E11 kit.
Ahh. I have lots of OS releases that aren't on bitsavers; contact me
if you're looking for something specific. (and, erm, not ancient)
But as for goals, I originally had an idea to have a PDP11, like your
11/53 there, respond to the strange stuff I build, along the lines of
(Adam) LINC-8 and the Straight that I saw at the same time we met and
your sidekick with his collection.
Indeed, that sounds like fun.
Who was my sidekick??
Ran out of space and time, for all of that. (I won't go into the
annoying problems of funding for my daft ideas.) Right now I'm in a
problematic NYC apartment that's short on space.
Time to move!
When the "embedded PDP-11" idea surfaced in the responses earlier
today I realized that some of my ideas seemed to be doable but the
"how and why" aspect surfaced......
Well "why" is easy:
- because I can
- because I want to
The "how" part is rather more difficult, but I suspect you won't have
much trouble.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 07/02/2012 06:41 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
I'll say. That does sound like something I would want to try out....
Absolutely.
Now as to your equipment collection Dave, your 11/53 running in a
different suit, you are aware it can be flipped back to a 11/53?
Yes. I don't have a DECserver-550 myself, though. I do have a
"regular" 11/53.
I'm still trying to sort out my directions for hardware and software......
What are your goals, and what do you have?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Software? Copies of everything that Al has on his bitsavers site.
Manuals certainly, stuff he created using those wonderful tools of
his. Hardware? Got me, I've got the SIMH stuff to emulate it, and
several examples of the E11 kit.
But as for goals, I originally had an idea to have a PDP11, like your
11/53 there, respond to the strange stuff I build, along the lines of
(Adam) LINC-8 and the Straight that I saw at the same time we met and
your sidekick with his collection.
Ran out of space and time, for all of that. (I won't go into the
annoying problems of funding for my daft ideas.) Right now I'm in a
problematic NYC apartment that's short on space.
And what does _that_ have to do with our list, and even the network it
supports, I can hear Johnny say, the data it produced would be
available for everyone to examine, and the hardware would have
accepted responses from each member.
Soon I hope.
When the "embedded PDP-11" idea surfaced in the responses earlier
today I realized that some of my ideas seemed to be doable but the
"how and why" aspect surfaced......
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 07/02/2012 06:41 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
I'll say. That does sound like something I would want to try out....
Absolutely.
Now as to your equipment collection Dave, your 11/53 running in a
different suit, you are aware it can be flipped back to a 11/53?
Yes. I don't have a DECserver-550 myself, though. I do have a
"regular" 11/53.
I'm still trying to sort out my directions for hardware and software......
What are your goals, and what do you have?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
