Are you saying that Terminal.app (a program I avoid by the way, since the VT100 emulation is buggy) do not pass all values? How are you using it, by the way?
Selected some arabic language on your MAC, running the terminal, typing in there, and in the terminal you have telnetted to some VMS box.
Yes, essentially, Terminal.app will not accept Arabic letter input but displays Arabic text (incorrectly, without ligatures).
I've tried this both locally, over SSH and Telnet.
Again, I don't think this is a VMS issue.
As for why I like Terminal.app? I dunno, got used to it I guess in the last 8 years, not really come across too many bugs that bothered me..
I am playing around with iTerm as well at the moment though.
What do you use as a terminal client on OS X?
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:39, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 11:33, Sampsa Laine wrote:
If I type the document locally and upload it via Kermit, it sort of works.
Unfortunately it doesn't keep the ligatures which makes it more or less useless for Arabic :)
How do you verify that it "works"? What does the document look like on the Mac? I mean, if you really look at all the bytes. What did you use to create it?
The letters are all there, but they're not correctly connected (ligatures) - again, probably a Terminal.app problem, VMS is storing them just fine.
I've attached two PNGs - what the correctly formatted Arabic should look like and how Terminal.app displays it. But yeah, I don't think this is a VMS issue, it seems to happily accept any script thrown at it :)
It would work for Hebrew though
You will most likely have similar issues with any document using any characters beyond ASCII, since I bet you have a UTF-8 encoded Unicode text on the Mac.
In Hebrew there are no ligatures so as long as the letters made it, Terminal.app can't mess it up :)
On 2013-09-28 11:33, Sampsa Laine wrote:
If I type the document locally and upload it via Kermit, it sort of works.
Unfortunately it doesn't keep the ligatures which makes it more or less useless for Arabic :)
How do you verify that it "works"? What does the document look like on the Mac? I mean, if you really look at all the bytes. What did you use to create it?
It would work for Hebrew though
You will most likely have similar issues with any document using any characters beyond ASCII, since I bet you have a UTF-8 encoded Unicode text on the Mac.
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:30, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Yeah I was thinking of typing up some Arabic documents in say EDIT and using TYPE to view them - but Terminal.app doesn't seem to pass the Arabic letters across correctly.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:28, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 11:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Is it possible to use say Arabic or Hebrew script on VMS - I don't mean for DCL of course but for editing text files etc.
Or does this require DECWindows?
What do you mean? Just displaying text, or are you looking for some software that actually would understand any of it.
I mean, you could just use a different character encoding, and just output the bytes you want, and have your terminal show anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-28 11:30, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Yeah I was thinking of typing up some Arabic documents in say EDIT and using TYPE to view them - but Terminal.app doesn't seem to pass the Arabic letters across correctly.
I think you are a little confused.
"Arabic letters" as such don't pass through anywhere. We're talking computers here. Everything is ones and zeroes.
It's just a case of how you choose to interpret those ones and zeroes at each end. Are you saying that Terminal.app (a program I avoid by the way, since the VT100 emulation is buggy) do not pass all values? How are you using it, by the way?
Selected some arabic language on your MAC, running the terminal, typing in there, and in the terminal you have telnetted to some VMS box.
That might end up with the terminal sending UTF-8 encoded Unicode, which VMS might have some opinions about. VMS do not handle UTF-8, and some of the values you get from the UTF-8 encoding might cause VMS to do specific things.
The MAC will think of several bytes as one character encoded in UTF-8, but VMS will think of that as several characters in Latin-1, unless you are running some special program in VMS which grabs all incoming data, in which case you can (or course) do anything you want.
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:28, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 11:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Is it possible to use say Arabic or Hebrew script on VMS - I don't mean for DCL of course but for editing text files etc.
Or does this require DECWindows?
What do you mean? Just displaying text, or are you looking for some software that actually would understand any of it.
I mean, you could just use a different character encoding, and just output the bytes you want, and have your terminal show anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
If I type the document locally and upload it via Kermit, it sort of works.
Unfortunately it doesn't keep the ligatures which makes it more or less useless for Arabic :)
It would work for Hebrew though
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:30, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Yeah I was thinking of typing up some Arabic documents in say EDIT and using TYPE to view them - but Terminal.app doesn't seem to pass the Arabic letters across correctly.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:28, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 11:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Is it possible to use say Arabic or Hebrew script on VMS - I don't mean for DCL of course but for editing text files etc.
Or does this require DECWindows?
What do you mean? Just displaying text, or are you looking for some software that actually would understand any of it.
I mean, you could just use a different character encoding, and just output the bytes you want, and have your terminal show anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-28 11:26, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:23, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I've never seen or heard of anyone using it. I think it was available a very short time on the market.
It is mentioned in one of the processor handbooks that covers the 11/70, but basically no other DEC documentation even mentions it.
Shame and a bit weird - why would DEC build a block-mode terminal for an application platform and then not sell / distribute the platform?
Not a successful product maybe? Maybe some shortcoming in the whole design made it not get any acceptance in the market.
Also, does anyone know where we might get specs on the VT62's block-mode data stream? Might be amusing to write a VT62<->IBM 3270 translator :)
Never seen any of that either. There was a block mode version of the VT100 as well, if I remember right. Maybe compatible? Although I have not seen the documentation for that one either.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Yeah I was thinking of typing up some Arabic documents in say EDIT and using TYPE to view them - but Terminal.app doesn't seem to pass the Arabic letters across correctly.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:28, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 11:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Is it possible to use say Arabic or Hebrew script on VMS - I don't mean for DCL of course but for editing text files etc.
Or does this require DECWindows?
What do you mean? Just displaying text, or are you looking for some software that actually would understand any of it.
I mean, you could just use a different character encoding, and just output the bytes you want, and have your terminal show anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-28 11:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Is it possible to use say Arabic or Hebrew script on VMS - I don't mean for DCL of course but for editing text files etc.
Or does this require DECWindows?
What do you mean? Just displaying text, or are you looking for some software that actually would understand any of it.
I mean, you could just use a different character encoding, and just output the bytes you want, and have your terminal show anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:23, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I've never seen or heard of anyone using it. I think it was available a very short time on the market.
It is mentioned in one of the processor handbooks that covers the 11/70, but basically no other DEC documentation even mentions it.
Shame and a bit weird - why would DEC build a block-mode terminal for an application platform and then not sell / distribute the platform?
Also, does anyone know where we might get specs on the VT62's block-mode data stream? Might be amusing to write a VT62<->IBM 3270 translator :)
sampsa
On 2013-09-28 07:43, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 28 Sep 2013, at 05:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-09-28 05:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2013-09-28 05:20, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Mine worked like any asynchronous serial interface. Plain RS-232.
Sounds like there's a magic switch somewhere ... Now to find it.
Either that, or the port is broken. I seem to remember mine breaking a
couple of times, and me repairing it. But any further details have been
forgotten. I only remember that it wasn't hard to figure out or fix.
I assume you have tried shorting pin 2&3 of the serial port, and nothing
happens when you type...?
Open it up. There is a large board at the bottom which if I remember
right, is pretty much all of it.
Oh, I should mention - I don't remember there being more than one rotary switch for speed selection, but check to make sure there isn't a separate for Tx and Rx, and them being set differently for split speed...
Just out of interest, how hard would it be to get hold of this TRAX software platform that uses VT62 in it's block mode (it runs on "high end PDP-11s")?
Anybody ever program anything for it?
I've never seen or heard of anyone using it. I think it was available a very short time on the market.
It is mentioned in one of the processor handbooks that covers the 11/70, but basically no other DEC documentation even mentions it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
