I remember you calling into CHIMPY with that 2400 baud Amstrad thing, good times.
But the Nokia 9210 is actually pretty cool, V.110 is like wireless ISDN plus if the other side has an analogue modem, the operator has a modem pool that converts the signal.
Ideal for this use I think (next to zero operating costs, easy connection, flexible, can't get hit by lightning*)
* Seriously, the place in Hila has taken a few harsh hits during storms, the electrical system was protected but the telephone wiring wasn't, high voltage jumps from PSTN to Skype base station to switch via ethernet, 1000+ euros damage. So we decided to take all the telephone wiring out and just use Skype. Nobody has noticed any difference.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:39, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote:
Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo!
I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...
You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK.
+44 15394 22404
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
Heh... this is obviously the way we did it in UNIX decades ago... I always complained about trying to use UNIX for the very thing it seemingly opposed (strict user controls) ...
... and we still do this; I can't keep users out of the OS an in the app... argh...
Surely VMS can do better!
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
>Sampsa Laine wrote:
What would be the correct security settings for a directory that:
- Allows anyone to add a file
- Anyone can read any file
- Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files.
Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find.
Just a suggestion. Why not have TWO directories?
(a) WRITE ONLY - anyone can send files to it - normally named: INCOMING
(b) READ ONLY - anyone can read any file
Just in case, you can (probably should) monitor
what is added to (a), then copy it over to (b)
ONLY after it is checked. Having (a) which
only you can look at (you might allow the contents
to be displayed, but I would not recommend it)
provides much better security. I also suggest that
for any file larger that 10 MB, an MD5 checksum
also be sent so you can verify the large file was
sent correctly.
Jerome Fine
On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote:
Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo!
I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...
You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK.
+44 15394 22404
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
In an NI cluster you can get away with expectedvotes=votes. IMHO disk corruption can only happen if another host accesses a local disk outside the DLM. In a CI or DSSI cluster this can happen and lead to multiply allocated blocks errors.
An alpha takes more time waiting to form a cluster, even with expectedvotes set to votes than a VAX. I haven't tried it on an rx2600 as yet.
In production I once configured a two node VAX 3100 NI cluster. Expectedvotes set to 2 and votes to 1. Each node had a local disk designated as quorum disk, one vote. All other disks were shadows et between the two systems. This thoroughly unsupported configuration ran for years until DEC forced a micro VAX 2000 on us. The supported cluster had more user down time once one of the host went down. In the unsupported cluster the vote of a quorum disk came into play only if the other VAX failed and almost noticeable, no cluster reconfiguration that took many seconds.
Hans
Van: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
Verzonden: dinsdag 8 oktober 2013 13:15
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
>On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
>> Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at
>>> the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS
>>> cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX
>>> creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on,
>>> but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs.
>>>
>>> Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1
>>> installation disk.
>> Just 2 nodes?
>>
>> What's your quorum configuration?
>>
>> Post:
>>
>> $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES
>> $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES
>>
>> ..from each node.
>I think you, sir, may have found the issue:
>
>On RIPLEY (the Alpha):
>
>$ mcr sysgen show votes
>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
>-------
>VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
>$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
>-------
>EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes
>
>
>On DALLAS (the VAX):
>
>$ mcr sysgen show votes
>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
>-------
>VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
>$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
>-------
>EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes
OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the
necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three
nodes to form a cluster.
However, let's look at what you said.
You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the
expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary
number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster.
You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too
has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has
booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang.
If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I
would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to
determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each
has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting
in data corruption.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 08/10/2013 12:15, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at
the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS
cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX
creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on,
but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs.
Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1
installation disk.
Just 2 nodes?
What's your quorum configuration?
Post:
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES
..from each node.
I think you, sir, may have found the issue:
On RIPLEY (the Alpha):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes
On DALLAS (the VAX):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes
OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the
necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three
nodes to form a cluster.
However, let's look at what you said.
You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the
expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary
number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster.
You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too
has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has
booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang.
If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I
would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to
determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each
has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting
in data corruption.
Thanks for the reminder of these issues. To be honest my experience with clustering is limited and generally specific to satellite based configurations. In this case I may make the VAX a satellite of the Alpha with the local disk acting as page/swap.
Am I right in thinking then that the relationship changes somewhat in that the Alpha will always need to be up but the VAX can come and go as it pleases (with the correct shutdown sequence)?
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo!
I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at
the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS
cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX
creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on,
but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs.
Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1
installation disk.
Just 2 nodes?
What's your quorum configuration?
Post:
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES
..from each node.
I think you, sir, may have found the issue:
On RIPLEY (the Alpha):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes
On DALLAS (the VAX):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
-------
EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes
OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the
necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three
nodes to form a cluster.
However, let's look at what you said.
You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the
expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary
number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster.
You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too
has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has
booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang.
If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I
would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to
determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each
has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting
in data corruption.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 08/10/2013 06:24, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Tue, 8 Oct 2013, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
Oh.. I thought that somehow LAT was routable over DECnet. I thought I remember in the old days some remote sites just had a terminal server and a couple of terminals. Many beers ago.
So, I could go from the DECserver to my local vax, and then bounce out?
That's what I do. (Well, DECserver to a FreeBSD box, and then to the world if I want to send email...like this particular one was sent from a VT320 on a DECserver 200/MC)
Last night I was basking in the glow of an orange VT320 as I used that and a DECserver to get around HECNET.
AFAIR Johnny's bridge is capable of forwarding LAT so I can see a load of services on the DECSERVER if I type SHOW SERVICE.
I also noticed that SET HOST LA75, which is meant to be a printer port on the DECSERVER in the basement gave me SYSTEM access to SLAVE. Woops, a little reconfiguration required there!
Regards, Mark.
Daniel.
On 08/10/2013, at 10:27 AM, Tim Sneddon <tim at sneddon.id.au> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
On 8 Oct 2013, at 04:19, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Oct 2013, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
SET HOST EISNER straight from a DECServer will be nice.
A DECserver speaking DECnet? That'd be awesome to have. Mine (albeit awesome, and one of my favourite things) only speaks LAT. ;)
My DS300 does inbound Telnet as well as inbound/outbound LAT and serial :)
No DECNET as far as I know.
I don't recall a DECserver that talks DECnet. It is the wrong protocol for that type of communication. DECservers originally only spoke LAT, which was developed specifically for local area communications (which it does very well).
Regards, Tim.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at
the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS
cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX
creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on,
but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs.
Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1
installation disk.
Just 2 nodes?
What's your quorum configuration?
Post:
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES
..from each node.
I think you, sir, may have found the issue:
On RIPLEY (the Alpha):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- -------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- -------
EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes
On DALLAS (the VAX):
$ mcr sysgen show votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- -------
VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes
$ mcr sysgen show expected votes
Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- -------
EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at
the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS
cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX
creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on,
but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs.
Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1
installation disk.
Just 2 nodes?
What's your quorum configuration?
Post:
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES
$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES
..from each node.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
