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15588 discussions

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/02/2013 06:20 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: However Dave for you to find it will require a shovel as it was deeply buried. You have no idea. Never having run Windows, thus without the periodic "wiping clean" of life that tends to happen when the OS shits the bed, I have stuff in my primary home directory that dates back to the 1980s. Nice! Anything interesting dating back to then? ;) Ohhhhh yes. =) It is a BIG filesystem. I'm assuming it's expanded from its original size in the 1980s? ;) Umm, a bit, yes. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/02/2013 08:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-01-02 22:47, Dave McGuire wrote: On 01/02/2013 04:43 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: (BTW the "buffered console" feature in 4.0 is also awesome, specially to run headless simulators. Now if we could do an unattended RSX boot it would be wonderful!). Yes, an unattended RSX boot WOULD be nice. ;) You could probably do it with "expect". I did some work in that area several years ago. I remember I got pretty far with it. I should try to dig it up. I'm not getting it. What is the problem with unattended RSX boots? Not just RSX. For RSTS/E at least, date prompting and such. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-02 22:47, Dave McGuire wrote: On 01/02/2013 04:43 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: (BTW the "buffered console" feature in 4.0 is also awesome, specially to run headless simulators. Now if we could do an unattended RSX boot it would be wonderful!). Yes, an unattended RSX boot WOULD be nice. ;) You could probably do it with "expect". I did some work in that area several years ago. I remember I got pretty far with it. I should try to dig it up. I'm not getting it. What is the problem with unattended RSX boots? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

13 years

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-02 22:33, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: (BTW the "buffered console" feature in 4.0 is also awesome, specially to run headless simulators. Now if we could do an unattended RSX boot it would be wonderful!). Uh... There are no problems in doing an unattended RSX boot... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

13 years

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by b4＠gewt.net

On 2 Jan 2013, at 17:53, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 01/02/2013 05:25 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: (BTW the "buffered console" feature in 4.0 is also awesome, specially to run headless simulators. Now if we could do an unattended RSX boot it would be wonderful!). Yes, an unattended RSX boot WOULD be nice. ;) You could probably do it with "expect". I did some work in that area several years ago. I remember I got pretty far with it. I should try to dig it up. It certainly sounds interesting. However Dave for you to find it will require a shovel as it was deeply buried. You have no idea. Never having run Windows, thus without the periodic "wiping clean" of life that tends to happen when the OS shits the bed, I have stuff in my primary home directory that dates back to the 1980s. Nice! Anything interesting dating back to then? ;) It is a BIG filesystem. I'm assuming it's expanded from its original size in the 1980s? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff! http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.

13 years

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Sent: 02 January 2013 22:37 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10 Al 02/01/13 23:32, En/na Paul_Koning at Dell.com ha escrit: Why those two modes? Real DMCs are symmetrical, I would have expected a simulation to do that too. Just to clarify it, I didn't wrote that software :). I don't want to get anyone's merits. And, for your question, I also wonder why did the author wrote it that way. I guess since it is TCP based one of the partners must put itself in listen mode and the other one has to do the initial connect, hence the need to differentiate between a "primary" or caller and a "secondary" or listener. UDP does not have that problem, but of course you can't (easily) tunnel UDP using -for instance- ssh. I am main author of the code, although the original idea came from Hans-Ulrich (Ulli) H lscher who has also done most of the testing and initiated its move into the official SIMH code, and Mark Pizzolato has done an amazing job getting it into SIMH and closer to the standard of other devices. The reason for primary and secondary modes is as Jordi says, because it uses a TCP connection. I tried to make it symmetrical but it was not very reliable and had problems when one end was behind an ISP which blocked the incoming TCP connections. The easiest way was to for one end to connect and the other to listen. I think some new features have been added to SIMH which might make this better, but I didn't have those available to me when I first wrote the code quite some time ago, perhaps a later release could change to use this. You can indeed use the simulated DMC11 to tunnel DECnet over the internet without using the bridge, my router, Multinet or a hardware router (of course your emulated node has to be a router though). My HECnet node VAX780 (5.8) is running the DMC11 emulation 24x7 on a Raspberry Pi, it is configured to connect to Ulli's emulation as and when it is available and so puts his nodes on HECnet when available. As for speed, Ulli did some tests but I don't recall the results, certainly faster than the original hardware. There is also a setting that lets you artificially slow down the speed so that you can get closer to the experience you would have had with the real hardware. Please note that we have only tested it significantly on VAX 780 emulations. I don't know enough about PDP11 and PDP10 to really test there. I have been struggling particularly with PDP10, trying to get TOPS-10 to use it, but I really don't know how and my attempt to build a new monitor with DMR11 emulation (almost identical to DMC11) failed at the link stage, but I don't know why. Regards Rob

13 years

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/02/2013 05:25 PM, Gregg Levine wrote: (BTW the "buffered console" feature in 4.0 is also awesome, specially to run headless simulators. Now if we could do an unattended RSX boot it would be wonderful!). Yes, an unattended RSX boot WOULD be nice. ;) You could probably do it with "expect". I did some work in that area several years ago. I remember I got pretty far with it. I should try to dig it up. It certainly sounds interesting. However Dave for you to find it will require a shovel as it was deeply buried. You have no idea. Never having run Windows, thus without the periodic "wiping clean" of life that tends to happen when the OS shits the bed, I have stuff in my primary home directory that dates back to the 1980s. It is a BIG filesystem. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/02/2013 05:32 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: The upcoming SIMH version (4.0) comes with a virtual DMC11. It has been merged to the head branch in the git repository, so I have been playing with it a little bit. The simh team has done an aswesome work again, so kudos for Bob, Mark and all the others... It seems the DMCx are supported in pdp10, pdp11 and the VAXen. The basic instructions to make it work are in the DOC files. Just to make the story short: - DMC11s work in pairs, just like the real devices. - One of the DMCs has to be put in PRIMARY mode, the other one in SECONDARY. The default is SECONDARY. Why those two modes? Real DMCs are symmetrical, I would have expected a simulation to do that too. I haven't seen the code, but I would guess that it's a matter of non-DMC-related administrivia, like which end initiates the TCP connection. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Al 02/01/13 23:32, En/na Paul_Koning at Dell.com ha escrit: Why those two modes? Real DMCs are symmetrical, I would have expected a simulation to do that too. Just to clarify it, I didn't wrote that software :). I don't want to get anyone's merits. And, for your question, I also wonder why did the author wrote it that way. I guess since it is TCP based one of the partners must put itself in listen mode and the other one has to do the initial connect, hence the need to differentiate between a "primary" or caller and a "secondary" or listener. UDP does not have that problem, but of course you can't (easily) tunnel UDP using -for instance- ssh.

13 years

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Jan 2, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Hello, The upcoming SIMH version (4.0) comes with a virtual DMC11. It has been merged to the head branch in the git repository, so I have been playing with it a little bit. The simh team has done an aswesome work again, so kudos for Bob, Mark and all the others... It seems the DMCx are supported in pdp10, pdp11 and the VAXen. The basic instructions to make it work are in the DOC files. Just to make the story short: - DMC11s work in pairs, just like the real devices. - One of the DMCs has to be put in PRIMARY mode, the other one in SECONDARY. The default is SECONDARY. Why those two modes? Real DMCs are symmetrical, I would have expected a simulation to do that too. paul

13 years

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