On 2013-04-04 22:57, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Apr 4, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/04/2013 04:35 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
...
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using a
device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Hello!
I am impressed. What device is this that SIMH does not emulate?
It might emulate all I'd need. I'm not sure what networking on VMS this old would have been like. I just need to find documentation of VAX/VMS 1.50. ;)
Given the release date shown in the login banner (1979) it's probably Phase III. Wikipedia says Phase III is from 1980, so it's possible that it's Phase II instead.
If Phase III, you could use the DMC-11 emulation in the current SIMH (discussed here recently), connected to something else that knows Phase III. If Phase II, it gets trickier, because you'd need a Phase III node for it to connect to, and it would presumably only know to talk to that neighbor node. (If it actually is Phase II, I'd be interested in a copy -- I've been working on Phase II compatibility for my DECnet/Python implementation.) At least I assume that the "routing" ("intercept") mechanism that's marginally documented in the Phase II specs isn't in DECnet/VMS if that's Phase II; some very vague memory says that this machinery only existed to allow 36 bit systems with Phase II in the OS to talk to an external node via their Phase II PDP-11 front end processors. I'd be interested if anyone can tell us more about that; I never paid any attention when I was actually working on DECnet back then.
There are people around who can expand on the weirdness of DECnet on 36-bit machines... I'm not good enough, but if I remember right, they talked phase II for a long time, with a phase III conversion/bridge sitting in the PDP-11 attached to the 36-bit machine.
I know I've read quite some documentation about it as well, but exactly where I can't remember... I don't even remember offhand what the additional 11/34 which was attached to the 36-bit system was called. But others here can fill in details. :-)
Johnny
On 2013-04-04 22:41, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/04/2013 04:35 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started
from
VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV
using a
device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Hello!
I am impressed. What device is this that SIMH does not emulate?
It might emulate all I'd need. I'm not sure what networking on VMS this
old would have been like. I just need to find documentation of VAX/VMS
1.50. ;)
Well... This is pre-ethernet and pre-DECnet phase IV... Serial ports then? Or DMC, or something similar...?
Johnny
Apparently not. The reason I came up with the device is that I used a PDP 11/40 with a DU11 to connect to a Burroughs B7700 using an RJE like protocol. It was called SYSTEM/SATCOM IIRC. The PDP ran RT-11 V4.
Other than that, networks were built using 1200 baud modems on serial lines. No DMF32 nor DZ11 in '79. How did one connect all those VT52's and LA36's, via a DL11?
-----Original Message-----
From: "Cory Smelosky" <b4 at gewt.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 20:59:42
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SECc: hvlems<hvlems at zonnet.nl>
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 1.50
On 04/04/2013 04:45 PM, hvlems wrote:
No ethernet in '79, no phase IV. So a DU11?
Hmmmm. Does SIMH emulate that?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 1.50
Verzonden: 4 april 2013 22:31
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started
from VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using
a device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 5:08 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
On Apr 4, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/04/2013 04:45 PM, hvlems wrote:
No ethernet in '79, no phase IV. So a DU11?
Hmmmm. Does SIMH emulate that?
It doesn't look like it does. And I don't know that VMS ever supported that device, anyway. RSX did, but various other systems tended to stay away from it because of the high software overhead. I do know that VMS supports DMC-11 (or DMR-11, essentially the same at the driver level), and there is support for that in the in-development release of SIMH.
paul
Hello!
What a predicament. Cory you said you'd upload it someplace to make it
available for us to do stuff with. Okay where? How big is it, and what
is the magic to convince (or confuse) SIMH for the VAX to bring it up?
Dave now you did it, the yetis are rioting.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Apr 4, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/04/2013 04:45 PM, hvlems wrote:
No ethernet in '79, no phase IV. So a DU11?
Hmmmm. Does SIMH emulate that?
It doesn't look like it does. And I don't know that VMS ever supported that device, anyway. RSX did, but various other systems tended to stay away from it because of the high software overhead. I do know that VMS supports DMC-11 (or DMR-11, essentially the same at the driver level), and there is support for that in the in-development release of SIMH.
paul
On 04/04/2013 04:45 PM, hvlems wrote:
No ethernet in '79, no phase IV. So a DU11?
Hmmmm. Does SIMH emulate that?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 1.50
Verzonden: 4 april 2013 22:31
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started
from VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using
a device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On Apr 4, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/04/2013 04:35 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
...
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using a
device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Hello!
I am impressed. What device is this that SIMH does not emulate?
It might emulate all I'd need. I'm not sure what networking on VMS this old would have been like. I just need to find documentation of VAX/VMS 1.50. ;)
Given the release date shown in the login banner (1979) it's probably Phase III. Wikipedia says Phase III is from 1980, so it's possible that it's Phase II instead.
If Phase III, you could use the DMC-11 emulation in the current SIMH (discussed here recently), connected to something else that knows Phase III. If Phase II, it gets trickier, because you'd need a Phase III node for it to connect to, and it would presumably only know to talk to that neighbor node. (If it actually is Phase II, I'd be interested in a copy -- I've been working on Phase II compatibility for my DECnet/Python implementation.) At least I assume that the "routing" ("intercept") mechanism that's marginally documented in the Phase II specs isn't in DECnet/VMS if that's Phase II; some very vague memory says that this machinery only existed to allow 36 bit systems with Phase II in the OS to talk to an external node via their Phase II PDP-11 front end processors. I'd be interested if anyone can tell us more about that; I never paid any attention when I was actually working on DECnet back then.
paul
No ethernet in '79, no phase IV. So a DU11?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 1.50
Verzonden: 4 april 2013 22:31
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started
from VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using
a device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On 04/04/2013 04:35 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started from
VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using a
device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Hello!
I am impressed. What device is this that SIMH does not emulate?
It might emulate all I'd need. I'm not sure what networking on VMS this old would have been like. I just need to find documentation of VAX/VMS 1.50. ;)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
Afternoon all,
I managed to get this to boot in SIMH with minimal effort. (Started from
VMS 3.x and then installed 1.5 with a bunch of devices disabled)
sim> b rp2
Loading boot code from vmb.exe
VAX/VMS Version 1.50 12-APR-1979 09:30
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2013 14:39
OPCOM, 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.22, LOGFILE INITIALIZED, OPERATOR=_OPA0:
$ !
$ ! VAX/VMS system startup - Release 1
$ !
$ SHOW TIME
4-APR-2013 14:39:06
$ SET NOVERIFY
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, CONSOLE mounted on _DXA1:
Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
SYSTEM job terminated at 4-APR-2013 14:39:06.49
Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 139 Peak working set size: 98
Direct I/O count: 38 Peak virtual size: 110
Page faults: 287 Mounted volumes: 1
Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.12 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.26
Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to VAX/VMS Version 1.50
$ sh network
NETWORK UNAVAILABLE
What kind of networking could I get working on this? Pre-Phase-IV using a
device SIMH doesn't have emulation support for? ;)
I can upload this disk image if anyone wants it.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Hello!
I am impressed. What device is this that SIMH does not emulate?
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
