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Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:52, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. I second this. How flexible is Datatrieve's permissions system? You can identify users either by UIC, or by entity-specific passwords. And for each type of thing in there you have Read, Write, Modify, Extend, and Control. And the access is a list, with the first match being the permissions used. So I could either make sure all people who might want to modify this have their own account on MIM, or else I could just create password protected access, and we could have shared or private passwords. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/18/2013 12:54 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I've been trying to avoid databases all my life, but when I got my hands on Datatrieve I had to come up with some kind of project to use it in, since I like to test all my PDP-11 software. And the first thing I started on was the nodename database, and right now it has started to pay off a little, since I can easily do various things with the data, and it has turned out to be helpful a couple of times... Well I'm glad you did it! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:45, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 15:00, Brian Hechinger wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? You could do separate mini-dbs for each area that each person can modify. Yes. That is what the separate table reference meant pretty much. Hmm, I could perhaps do that, with only me being able to add to the tables, but designated persons being able to modify data in there. That's pretty much what I was thinking of 100%. Definitely a possibly solution. Johnny Johnny -brian On May 17, 2013, at 12:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-05-17 16:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: On 2013-05-16 18:28, Johnny Billquist wrote: This is a totally volontary thing. I've finally come to the point where I think that there are a few more pieces of data on nodes that would be nice/useful to have from time to time. Much of the information you want (all of it, I think) is already in the INFO.TXT file - $ type legato""::info.txt .... ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES 2.1 |LEGATO|Bob Armstrong |bob at jfcl.com |simh |OpenVMS 7.3|Milpitas, CA, US|DCN Multinet Ro uter 2.2 |POCO | | |MicroVAX-2000 | | |6MB, RD54, TK50 2.4 |MEZZO | | |PDP-11/53 |RSTS | |3.5MB, 2xRA73,TK70, SCSI 2.6 |LARGO | | |VAX-11/730 |VMS 4.7 | |R80, 2xRA81, RL02, RX02, TU80 2.7 |CODA | | |DS20E |OpenVMS 8.3| | 2.9 |DIVISI| | |VAX-8350 |VMS 5.5-2 | |16MB, RA81, RA82, TU81+ 2.10 |ADAGIO| | |VAXserver 3900 |VMS 6.0 | |RA81, RX50, 2xRD54, Kennedy 9610, RRD50, RF31, 2xRF71, RF72, SQ703, Exabyte 8505 2.11 |LENTO | | |PDP-11/73 |RSX-11M+ | |2xRD32, RX50, RL02, Kennedy 9600 2.12 |JENSEN| | |DEC 2000 axp |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.13 |ZITI | | |eBox-3310 |Ubuntu | | 2.14 |MULTIA| | |Multia UDB |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.15 |PAVANE| | |DECstation 3100 |Ultrix | |MIPS box w/DECnet-Ultrix 2.16 |SKETTI| | |HP ProLiant ML110G4 |Ubuntu | | 2.18 |DSRVB1| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | 2.19 |DSRVB2| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | FWIW, keeping a central database up to date is going to be a nightmare - that's why we invented the INFO.TXT files; so each sysadmin could locally update his own information. Yes. I know... :-) Which I said this is all voluntary and so on. I've just felt that the INFO.TXT is not really working that well either. At least not from my point of view. I'm willing to try different things. I could consider some automatic scraping and population of the nodename database from some distributed sources as well, if we can come up with something that seems reasonable. Oh, and thanks. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/18/2013 12:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I hope you've never used Microsoft Access. ;) No, I haven't. That requires Windows, and I've never used Windows. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:49, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. Another suggestion of having one table per area was given, which should be pretty doable as well. There are some issues that become more burdensome, but it might be worth looking into. It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I've been trying to avoid databases all my life, but when I got my hands on Datatrieve I had to come up with some kind of project to use it in, since I like to test all my PDP-11 software. And the first thing I started on was the nodename database, and right now it has started to pay off a little, since I can easily do various things with the data, and it has turned out to be helpful a couple of times... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. I second this. How flexible is Datatrieve's permissions system? It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I hope you've never used Microsoft Access. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:45, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:35, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. One thing I always like to have is some kind of uniformity. That is always harder to get with many people entering data. But I guess that can be addressed by having some explicit guidelines. Yeah, I've noticed that about INFO.TXT. Not everyone follows the same syntax. Right now, the uniformity (as far as it goes) comes from just my head. Always good when your head has uniformity. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:45, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 15:00, Brian Hechinger wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? You could do separate mini-dbs for each area that each person can modify. Yes. That is what the separate table reference meant pretty much. Hmm, I could perhaps do that, with only me being able to add to the tables, but designated persons being able to modify data in there. Definitely a possibly solution. Johnny Johnny -brian On May 17, 2013, at 12:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-05-17 16:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: On 2013-05-16 18:28, Johnny Billquist wrote: This is a totally volontary thing. I've finally come to the point where I think that there are a few more pieces of data on nodes that would be nice/useful to have from time to time. Much of the information you want (all of it, I think) is already in the INFO.TXT file - $ type legato""::info.txt .... ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES 2.1 |LEGATO|Bob Armstrong |bob at jfcl.com |simh |OpenVMS 7.3|Milpitas, CA, US|DCN Multinet Ro uter 2.2 |POCO | | |MicroVAX-2000 | | |6MB, RD54, TK50 2.4 |MEZZO | | |PDP-11/53 |RSTS | |3.5MB, 2xRA73,TK70, SCSI 2.6 |LARGO | | |VAX-11/730 |VMS 4.7 | |R80, 2xRA81, RL02, RX02, TU80 2.7 |CODA | | |DS20E |OpenVMS 8.3| | 2.9 |DIVISI| | |VAX-8350 |VMS 5.5-2 | |16MB, RA81, RA82, TU81+ 2.10 |ADAGIO| | |VAXserver 3900 |VMS 6.0 | |RA81, RX50, 2xRD54, Kennedy 9610, RRD50, RF31, 2xRF71, RF72, SQ703, Exabyte 8505 2.11 |LENTO | | |PDP-11/73 |RSX-11M+ | |2xRD32, RX50, RL02, Kennedy 9600 2.12 |JENSEN| | |DEC 2000 axp |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.13 |ZITI | | |eBox-3310 |Ubuntu | | 2.14 |MULTIA| | |Multia UDB |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.15 |PAVANE| | |DECstation 3100 |Ultrix | |MIPS box w/DECnet-Ultrix 2.16 |SKETTI| | |HP ProLiant ML110G4 |Ubuntu | | 2.18 |DSRVB1| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | 2.19 |DSRVB2| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | FWIW, keeping a central database up to date is going to be a nightmare - that's why we invented the INFO.TXT files; so each sysadmin could locally update his own information. Yes. I know... :-) Which I said this is all voluntary and so on. I've just felt that the INFO.TXT is not really working that well either. At least not from my point of view. I'm willing to try different things. I could consider some automatic scraping and population of the nodename database from some distributed sources as well, if we can come up with something that seems reasonable. Oh, and thanks. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:45, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:35, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. One thing I always like to have is some kind of uniformity. That is always harder to get with many people entering data. But I guess that can be addressed by having some explicit guidelines. Right now, the uniformity (as far as it goes) comes from just my head. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years

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