In the end I found that regardless of whether I use /IMAGE and save/restore from an intermediary saveset or I do a direct copy the directory modification times are always new but the file modification times are set correctly.
This makes an exact reproduction easier as if I do want to have the original directory times too then a script to patch these will be simpler.
Regards, mark
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
On 22 May 2013, at 18:04, "Cory Smelosky" <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Wed, 22 May 2013, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:20 PM, h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Gregg, go fight some yetis, you hit it on the nail :-)
Van: Gregg Levine
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 16:26 PM
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
<system at tmesis.com> wrote:
h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> writes:
{HTML elided}
Could you not post HTML???
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker
VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Hello!
(And I perhaps understand the ways of machines with the wisdom of one
of my favorite characters.)
I can't speak for why the VMS system is behaving strangely concerning
the backup functions of its CDs, but I can for how one of us is
posting. Some of us use our portable devices for participation on
these lists. They in turn have default setting which can not be
changed. That setting sadly is HTML. (Or something close enough.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Hello!
Hmm okay. My concept hit it on the head.
And the only yetis I know are busy besieging Dave's place. And causing
massive mayhem all over Cory. But yes you're right.
That'd explain the scratching at the roof...
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On 2013-05-22 19:52, Julian Wolfe wrote:
So maybe I haven't noticed this before on the nodename info facility,
but it's now showing some extra fields:
Nodename database info for FLIND::
NODE NODE NODE REGISTER
NAME NUMBER OWNER CPU OS LOCATION TIME
FLIND 18.777 Julian Wolfe 27-Feb-2013 01:01:51
Information about FLIND:: at RHESUS::
<http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com?q=FLIND>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLIND::INFO.TXT
.BEGIN-HECNET-INFO
ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES
18.777 |FLIND |Julian Wolfe |julian at twinax.org <mailto:julian at twinax.org> |PDP-11/23+ |RSTS/E 10.1A |Round Lake Beach, IL |1MB RAM, UC07, DEQNA, 72GB HDD
.END-HECNET-INFO
Can anyone explain why my name and nodename are being parsed, but not
machine/os/location? Do I need to change the field name HARDWARE to CPU?
Did you miss my tirade about my extensions to the nodename database on MIM? :-)
Anyway, I'm putting your information in now. Look at http://madame.update.uu.se/~bqt/nodedb for search features and so on. Three machines running RSTS/E registred now. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On May 19, 2013, at 19:49, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-05-19 20:07, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 19 May 2013, at 20:03, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Sun, 19 May 2013, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 19 May 2013, at 19:58, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
#6 is a provlem I've noticed with INFO.TXT. There's no order.
When me and Steve Davidson originally thought of adding parseable info to INFO.TXT we had the idea that the file itself would be free-form text with a machine parseable block at the end, with delimiters.
If you look at http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com?q=chimpy you'll see what I mean, there's a clearly defined block of machine readable CSV at the end.
How many people followed that though?
No idea - I don't think anyone ever wrote a parser.
But here's a brief outline of how I think this should work:
1. Someone (=me) defines the CSV format formally in a document
2. This document is passed around and corrected until majority is happy with it
3. Someone (=brian) writes a parser
4. People nominate boxes from where their INFO.TXTs should be pulled (one can cover a whole area or even more)
5. This is integrated into the DB using the parser from 3 periodically.
My biggest issues already mentioned earlier are no nearer a solution here, so I'm not sure I really see any wins for my pet project in doing this.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you need to use this. I'm pushing this as a part of my own agenda. :)
I have an issue about data content consistency. OS, machine and location information can vary so wildly it is pretty much useless in a distributed solution as suggested here, except for people to try and ready and skim through for fun. It will not even be easy for humans to search through to find something specific. And locations are totally wild.
A system is only as good as its data. If people don't update their file then they get misrepresented. :)
Also, this do in no way ensure that data is valid or up to date. In fact, as things stands now, it has less odds of getting it right than my stupid solution of just entering the data myself, as people in general do report when they add a new machine to HECnet, if they want anyone else to know about the nodename. Collecting extra information at that stage is not a big problem.
This also do not ensure that data gets updated when people move, but moving don't happen frequently, and also even having any data in there is voluntary to start with, so I guess it's as good as I can expect it to get.
Basically, what you are advocating is the already existing solution of the INFO.TXT files, which I already have stated that I personally don't feel fits my needs. I don't mind trying to update my own INFO.TXT file whenever, but I'm sure the format is wrong, and I definitely do not put all machines in there (and I don't think I've seen many others doing either), and I definitely do not remember to update that information.
Yes, I'm advocating the existing INFO.TXT solution. I'm just proposing a more documented data format with some slight tweaks.
But, like I said a number of times now, it's just that I went off on a tangent on a pet project of mine, and asked people to volunteer information for it. I'm trying to make it useful, but mostly just for my own amusement to see what I can accomplish. (Hey, give me a chance to do something under RSX, and I will...)
Sorry, I just sort of used your project as inspiration and ran with it. EVERY project on HECnet is a pet project. :)
-brian
So maybe I haven't noticed this before on the nodename info facility, but it's now showing some extra fields:
Nodename database info for FLIND::
NODE NODE NODE REGISTER
NAME NUMBER OWNER CPU OS LOCATION TIME
FLIND 18.777 Julian Wolfe 27-Feb-2013 01:01:51
Information about FLIND:: at RHESUS::
FLIND::INFO.TXT
.BEGIN-HECNET-INFO
ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES
18.777 |FLIND |Julian Wolfe |julian at twinax.org |PDP-11/23+ |RSTS/E 10.1A |Round Lake Beach, IL |1MB RAM, UC07, DEQNA, 72GB HDD
.END-HECNET-INFO
Can anyone explain why my name and nodename are being parsed, but not machine/os/location? Do I need to change the field name HARDWARE to CPU?
On Wed, 22 May 2013, Gregg Levine wrote:
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:20 PM, h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Gregg, go fight some yetis, you hit it on the nail :-)
Van: Gregg Levine
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 16:26 PM
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
<system at tmesis.com> wrote:
h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> writes:
{HTML elided}
Could you not post HTML???
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker
VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Hello!
(And I perhaps understand the ways of machines with the wisdom of one
of my favorite characters.)
I can't speak for why the VMS system is behaving strangely concerning
the backup functions of its CDs, but I can for how one of us is
posting. Some of us use our portable devices for participation on
these lists. They in turn have default setting which can not be
changed. That setting sadly is HTML. (Or something close enough.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Hello!
Hmm okay. My concept hit it on the head.
And the only yetis I know are busy besieging Dave's place. And causing
massive mayhem all over Cory. But yes you're right.
That'd explain the scratching at the roof...
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On Wed, 22 May 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
We've had this up before. Please do not post things in html. If you
cannot get your device to behave civilized, then wait until you are at a
civilized device.
"civilized device"
Hey, it's completely true. ;)
HTML email is email for cavemen.
ROTFLMFAO!
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
Van: Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 17:18 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: Gregg Levine
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
On 2013-05-22 16:26, Gregg Levine wrote:
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
> <system at tmesis.com> wrote:
>> h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> writes:
>>
>> {HTML elided}
>>
>> Could you not post HTML???
>>
>> --
>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>>
>> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
>
> Hello!
> (And I perhaps understand the ways of machines with the wisdom of one
> of my favorite characters.)
> I can't speak for why the VMS system is behaving strangely concerning
> the backup functions of its CDs, but I can for how one of us is
> posting. Some of us use our portable devices for participation on
> these lists. They in turn have default setting which can not be
> changed. That setting sadly is HTML. (Or something close enough.)
We've had this up before. Please do not post things in html. If you
cannot get your device to behave civilized, then wait until you are at a
civilized device.
Johnny
Sorry Brian.
Van: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 16:40 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> writes:
>On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
><system at tmesis.com> wrote:
>> h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> writes:
>>
>> {HTML elided}
>>
>> Could you not post HTML???
>>
>> --
>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
>>
>> Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
>
>Hello!
>(And I perhaps understand the ways of machines with the wisdom of one
>of my favorite characters.)
>I can't speak for why the VMS system is behaving strangely concerning
>the backup functions of its CDs, but I can for how one of us is
BACKUP is not behaving strangely at all. Its purpose was for doing BACKUP
and RESTORE. If you do NOT place (restore) files on the volume into their
original configuration, it is/was considered a new file and thus, receives
new file creation and modification dates and times. I was elaborating on
this very aspect of the file system in the OpenVMS File Systems Internals
V2 book when HP nixed it.
>posting. Some of us use our portable devices for participation on
>these lists. They in turn have default setting which can not be
>changed. That setting sadly is HTML. (Or something close enough.)
I read most of my email, assuming it's text, on VMS. If the email has a
MIME encoding or attachment, I read it on my Linux or OS X boxes. It's
not that I can't read it, it's just annoying to see that much "crap" for
a simple one line response. Hans's emails are so gobbledegook that it's
difficult to read through the HTML tags to see if it's worth the effort
to preview it on the Linux or OS X system.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:20 PM, h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Gregg, go fight some yetis, you hit it on the nail :-)
Van: Gregg Levine
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 16:26 PM
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
<system at tmesis.com> wrote:
h vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> writes:
{HTML elided}
Could you not post HTML???
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker
VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Hello!
(And I perhaps understand the ways of machines with the wisdom of one
of my favorite characters.)
I can't speak for why the VMS system is behaving strangely concerning
the backup functions of its CDs, but I can for how one of us is
posting. Some of us use our portable devices for participation on
these lists. They in turn have default setting which can not be
changed. That setting sadly is HTML. (Or something close enough.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Hello!
Hmm okay. My concept hit it on the head.
And the only yetis I know are busy besieging Dave's place. And causing
massive mayhem all over Cory. But yes you're right.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
I'd forgotten that part of the manual :(
Van: G.
Verzonden: woensdag 22 mei 2013 16:30 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] OpenVMS Backup
On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:00:08, h vlems wrote:
> Move all data directories on an LD to an aptly named top directory and
> mount/bind all the ld disks?
If I'm not wrong, MOUNT/BIND does not work if more than one disk contains
files. In other words, when you bind a number of disks, you'll see only files
located in the first one. Bind was conceived when physical disks were so small
that some applications space needs exceeded single-disk capacities available.
HELP MOUNT /BIND says:
| Note that if you attempt to create a volume set from two or more
| volumes that already contain files and data, the file system does
| not issue an error message when you issue the MOUNT/BIND command.
| However, the volumes are unusable as a volume set because the
| directory structures are not properly bound.
G.
